Vegetarian?

[Icarusbop]

Originally Posted by Laz116

That's a myth...

http://www.snopes.com/science/nailgrow.asp

Well, well, very interesting, I've learned something new today. Ho Hum there goes one argument....

[disney_mommy]

Originally Posted by desertgrandma

Just tell me you 'misquoted' here. Please.

Nope, I said it. In my mind, there is no difference between eating a cat or a dog or a chicken or a human. They are all living beings and do not deserve to be tortured, killed or eaten.

It may be "out there" to most people, but it's how I feel.

[disney_mommy]

Originally Posted by nekokami

Conversation has stayed pretty civil, so I'm going to take off my "moderator" hat and put my "participant" hat back on, unless someone objects.

We're trying!

Originally Posted by nekokami

I have to say, that's an odd definition of "alive." I can see debating whether or not a virus is alive, but a carrot is most definitely alive. (It may or may not be able to feel pain-- there really is some evidence that plants are more active than we have previously thought. Not what I think anyone here would call "sentient," though.)

I don't mean a carrot isn't alive in the traditional sense, it is. It "breathes" and produces food, etc. I'm just saying, for our purpose here, that a carrot isn't "alive." It has no spinal cord, brain, etc.

[disney_mommy]

Originally Posted by Icarusbop

As a side point, if they are not 'alive' what are they, I don't think 'dead' fits either?

Like I said in something I just posted a second ago, I didn't mean that plants aren't alive. I just meant, for our intents here on this thread, I don't consider them alive in the same sense as other humans and animals.

Originally Posted by Icarusbop

I infer from this that Children have the same standing as chickens - so I would like to ask a question which is off topic and a bit contentious - so I understand if you ignore it....

If a child and a chicken were both drowning (I don't think chickens can swim...) which would you save and why?

I would definitely save the child. Just because I value both of their rights to live doesn't mean I don't have a soft spot for the humans.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by nekokami

*Edit to add: when cows eat grass, it doesn't kill the grass. It does kill individual cells, but the plant as a whole generally survives, especially perennial varieties.

But I guess there will be other plants among the grass that will be killed by grazing.

Originally Posted by nekokami

Question: if meat could be grown as cellular tissue in vitro, so that it could be harvested without killing any animals, how many of you who identify as vegetarians would have an ethical problem with eating it? (Let's assume, for the moment, that this could be done in a way that produced "meat" that really was just as healthy and tasted the same as the real thing.)

I wouldn't have an ethical issue with that.

[griffonwing]

Originally Posted by nekokami

Question: if meat could be grown as cellular tissue in vitro, so that it could be harvested without killing any animals, how many of you who identify as vegetarians would have an ethical problem with eating it? (Let's assume, for the moment, that this could be done in a way that produced "meat" that really was just as healthy and tasted the same as the real thing.)

I wouldn't touch it. I value LIFE! Do I eat meat? Yes. I value it's nutrition. I value it's worth to sustain me and give me the things I need to stay healthy and survive.

I would not trust anything man made to supply the kind of nutrients for my body to metabolize. I can't even say that our bodies could successfully process the stuff. It might taste ok. Actually, I'm sure they can give this Mystery Meat any possible taste. Chicken, snake, squirrel, squid, shark, duck, whatever.

Still. Give me the cooked flesh from a living animal anyday.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by nekokami

HarryT, I'm actually with you on most of this, but the bolded part seems like a bit of a leap to me. But if this is an evolutionist/creationist thing, I'll just back off and leave it alone.

Sorry, I think you may have misunderstood me. When I say that "both the carrot and the chicken exist for the purposes of being eaten", I am referring to the specific carrot or chicken that one is debating whether or not to eat, not to carrots and chickens as a species . ie, someone planted that carrot and grew that chicken for the express purpose of them finishing up as food, and that specific carrot and chicken would not otherwise have existed.

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by griffonwing

Still. Give me the cooked flesh from a living animal anyday.

For pity's sake - kill it first!!

[HarryT]

Eating your own species is not a good survival strategy, especially for carrion eaters. There's too high a risk that whatever killed the thing you're eating will also kill you!

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Eating your own species is not a good survival strategy, especially for carrion eaters. There's too high a risk that whatever killed the thing you're eating will also kill you!

Years ago I vaguely remember reading somewhere that your own species is the most nutritionally balanced meat you can eat - but I've no idea where I read that (I'm pretty sure it wasn't one of Delia's books ).

[RickyMaveety]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Eating your own species is not a good survival strategy, especially for carrion eaters. There's too high a risk that whatever killed the thing you're eating will also kill you!

That's pretty much a risk no matter what species a carrion eater eats. It's always possible that the thing that killed your meal is still in the area and that the carrion eater may present a good target. That has nothing to do with whether or not your meal is the same species as you. In fact, after some carrion flesh has been worked over, it would be difficult to tell exactly what species it is.

Remarkably difficult to tell human flesh from pork for example.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry, I think you may have misunderstood me. When I say that "both the carrot and the chicken exist for the purposes of being eaten", I am referring to the specific carrot or chicken that one is debating whether or not to eat, not to carrots and chickens as a species . ie, someone planted that carrot and grew that chicken for the express purpose of them finishing up as food, and that specific carrot and chicken would not otherwise have existed.

Oh, I see. Yes, I misunderstood you. Sorry.

I think that might only remove the ethical question by one step, though. Because then you have the issue of raising animals (or carrots) specifically to kill and eat them. I, personally, would have a harder time doing that with chickens than with carrots.

[nekokami]

Originally Posted by griffonwing

Actually, I'm sure they can give this Mystery Meat any possible taste. Chicken, snake, squirrel, squid, shark, duck, whatever.

I was presuming that as a culture of the muscle cells of a specific animal, it would taste like meat from that animal. It could be hard to get the texture right, though. The muscle cells might need to be stimulated to flex while growing.

I'm not sure how I feel about the idea, myself. I don't know as it would really use less resources than raising animals on their natural diets, for one thing. And I don't really miss eating meat.

I think the meat we typically get (at least in US supermarkets) is so processed that there might not be much difference in "naturalness" between it and cultured cells, though. All kinds of stuff gets injected, sprayed on, etc. I know organic foods are more expensive right now, but maybe if more of us made a point of buying them, the cost would come down as volume goes up. At least they're getting easier to find these days.

[HistoryWes]

Where is the "Most of my meals are entirely meat" category?

Vegetables are what my food eats.

[DixieGal]

Originally Posted by HistoryWes

Where is the "Most of my meals are entirely meat" category?

Vegetables are what my food eats.

LOL! Exactly! Us carnivores are just end-user vegetarians after all!

I made this out of some stones that were bought online. It's a happy bubble-gum pink. UNTIL.... Tim looked at it and said, "You know what? It looks like it is made out of raw baloney." HA!

PS - This is a bad photo, the new one shot under a light tent shows the bright pinkness.