Drop Caps question

holdit · 08-12-2014, 12:50 PM

Just did a flowing text EPub and mobi files. Both look great except for the drop caps which are not aligned right. I have two screenshots, one for EPub and one for the mobi. Was curious how I go about editing correctly so the letter lines up with the paragraph in both files.

thx HI

theducks · 08-12-2014, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by holdit

Just did a flowing text EPub and mobi files. Both look great except for the drop caps which are not aligned right. I have two screenshots, one for EPub and one for the mobi. Was curious how I go about editing correctly so the letter lines up with the paragraph in both files.

thx HI

Please show the code for the first line (the one the dropcap belongs to)
AND
The style sheet entries for all the class used on the line.

holdit · 08-12-2014, 02:49 PM

Thanks guys, I was able to locate the class for the d caps and then find that in the css, I made the EM a bigger size and it lined up perfectly!

thx

HI

mrmikel · 08-12-2014, 07:34 PM

Make sure you test this in a wide variety of devices if this intended for broad distribution. Drop caps is one thing I read about blowing up fairly frequently.

theducks · 08-12-2014, 08:35 PM

Try different Zoom levels on the device.

Watch out for absolute vs scaleable unit interactions

EG a 16pt font does not scale when zoomed.

(I do tend to ignore issues that only happen at the extremes: Largest or Smallest zooms YMMV)

cybmole · 08-13-2014, 01:28 AM

...and please think of the intended audience. you the author may like them - but I and other customers may hate them, as they make the book harder to read

and like the guys have said, they chances of them looking as intended on all of your customer's devices are not good

I think google will back me up on the readability issue- to my mind these date back to the time of medieval monks doodling their way bored lives away at the book copying desk- when was the last time you saw dropcaps in a newspaper ?

for me they just detract from readability, and since they usually go haywire in a calibre conversion, ( because fonts get rescaled). I just delete them!

further reading
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012...est-practices/

Tex2002ans · 08-13-2014, 07:05 AM

There was also a bunch of dropcap discussion in these three topics (Oldest -> Recent):

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=228236
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=229512
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=237323

There were SOME solutions, that might work in most cases... although you can't rely on it working everywhere. A bunch of devices are notorious for breaking (as was brought up, larger/smaller font size, different fonts, changing margins/line-spacing, etc. etc.).

Overall, I would probably say stay away. Go with a Raised Cap instead (which is what we settled on doing over at work as an ok "middle ground"). Although even THAT breaks on some devices (the Nook Touch (?) has a bug where it messes up the line spacing when there is a raised cap).

cybmole · 08-13-2014, 10:53 AM

I remember now - the other reason I remove large 1st letter styles is because I hate seeing that 1st line then a gap then all the the lines normally spaced side effect.
the quoted links say that it happens on Kindles and I know for sure that it happens on Kobo & Sony readers.

Make the 1st character bold if you must, then leave it at that. anything fancier is just bad for readability , and the smaller the device the worse it looks!

Jellby · 08-13-2014, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cybmole

I remember now - the other reason I remove large 1st letter styles is because I hate seeing that 1st line then a gap then all the the lines normally spaced side effect.
the quoted links say that it happens on Kindles and I know for sure that it happens on Kobo & Sony readers.

It probably does if there's no line-height setting. I usually add "line-height:0" to my raised caps, so they don't disturb the normal line spacing (although that may look bad if the cap is a J, in a font where it has a descender).

JSWolf · 08-13-2014, 11:28 AM

This is not a Sigil issue. It belongs in the ePub forum.

BetterRed · 08-13-2014, 06:42 PM

FWIW and of no consequence whatsoever, I just saw a drop cap in a Foreign Policy article. FP is a magazine from the same publisher as the Washington Post and Slate. Pretty sure I've also seen them in recent editions of Vanity Fair and Le Monde Diplomatique.

BR

Notjohn · 08-24-2014, 08:01 AM

I mastered drop-caps when the Kindle Fire was first introduced, and was very proud of myself for a time. (They don't work on the older Kindles; the thing becomes an up-cap instead.) Then the Kindle team changed the line spacing, to make it more generous, and all those pretty drop-caps were now out of alignment. Considering that if the line spacing were changed once, it might change again, I went back and removed them. Instead I use faux smallcaps for the first few words, 90 percent and bolded. I think that looks good, and it seems to work well across all platforms. (On the older Kindles, it simply defaults to full caps, which is acceptable.)

08-12-2014, 12:50 PM	#1
holdit Connoisseur Posts: 86 Karma: 470352 Join Date: Dec 2012 Device: Kindle Fire, IPad	Drop Caps question Just did a flowing text EPub and mobi files. Both look great except for the drop caps which are not aligned right. I have two screenshots, one for EPub and one for the mobi. Was curious how I go about editing correctly so the letter lines up with the paragraph in both files. thx HI Attached Thumbnails

08-13-2014, 07:05 AM	#7
Tex2002ans Wizard Posts: 2,306 Karma: 13057279 Join Date: Jul 2012 Device: Kobo Forma, Nook	There was also a bunch of dropcap discussion in these three topics (Oldest -> Recent): https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=228236 https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=229512 https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=237323 There were SOME solutions, that might work in most cases... although you can't rely on it working everywhere. A bunch of devices are notorious for breaking (as was brought up, larger/smaller font size, different fonts, changing margins/line-spacing, etc. etc.). Overall, I would probably say stay away. Go with a Raised Cap instead (which is what we settled on doing over at work as an ok "middle ground"). Although even THAT breaks on some devices (the Nook Touch (?) has a bug where it messes up the line spacing when there is a raised cap). Last edited by Tex2002ans; 08-13-2014 at 07:08 AM.

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08-12-2014, 02:49 PM	#3
holdit Connoisseur Posts: 86 Karma: 470352 Join Date: Dec 2012 Device: Kindle Fire, IPad	Thanks guys, I was able to locate the class for the d caps and then find that in the css, I made the EM a bigger size and it lined up perfectly! thx HI

08-12-2014, 07:34 PM	#4
mrmikel Color me gone Posts: 2,089 Karma: 1445295 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Central Oregon Coast Device: PRS-300	Make sure you test this in a wide variety of devices if this intended for broad distribution. Drop caps is one thing I read about blowing up fairly frequently.

08-12-2014, 08:35 PM	#5
theducks Well trained by Cats Posts: 30,909 Karma: 60358908 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: The Central Coast of California Device: Kobo Libra2,Kobo Aura2v1, K4NT(Fixed: New Bat.), Galaxy Tab A	Try different Zoom levels on the device. Watch out for absolute vs scaleable unit interactions EG a 16pt font does not scale when zoomed. (I do tend to ignore issues that only happen at the extremes: Largest or Smallest zooms YMMV)

08-13-2014, 01:28 AM	#6
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	...and please think of the intended audience. you the author may like them - but I and other customers may hate them, as they make the book harder to read and like the guys have said, they chances of them looking as intended on all of your customer's devices are not good I think google will back me up on the readability issue- to my mind these date back to the time of medieval monks doodling their way bored lives away at the book copying desk- when was the last time you saw dropcaps in a newspaper ? for me they just detract from readability, and since they usually go haywire in a calibre conversion, ( because fonts get rescaled). I just delete them! further reading http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2012...est-practices/

08-13-2014, 10:53 AM	#8
cybmole Wizard Posts: 3,720 Karma: 1759970 Join Date: Sep 2010 Device: none	I remember now - the other reason I remove large 1st letter styles is because I hate seeing that 1st line then a gap then all the the lines normally spaced side effect. the quoted links say that it happens on Kindles and I know for sure that it happens on Kobo & Sony readers. Make the 1st character bold if you must, then leave it at that. anything fancier is just bad for readability , and the smaller the device the worse it looks!

08-13-2014, 11:28 AM	#10
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 79,147 Karma: 144284184 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	This is not a Sigil issue. It belongs in the ePub forum.

08-13-2014, 06:42 PM	#11
BetterRed null operator (he/him) Posts: 21,630 Karma: 29710510 Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Sydney Australia Device: none	FWIW and of no consequence whatsoever, I just saw a drop cap in a Foreign Policy article. FP is a magazine from the same publisher as the Washington Post and Slate. Pretty sure I've also seen them in recent editions of Vanity Fair and Le Monde Diplomatique. BR

08-24-2014, 08:01 AM	#12
Notjohn mostly an observer Posts: 1,518 Karma: 987654 Join Date: Dec 2012 Device: Kindle	I mastered drop-caps when the Kindle Fire was first introduced, and was very proud of myself for a time. (They don't work on the older Kindles; the thing becomes an up-cap instead.) Then the Kindle team changed the line spacing, to make it more generous, and all those pretty drop-caps were now out of alignment. Considering that if the line spacing were changed once, it might change again, I went back and removed them. Instead I use faux smallcaps for the first few words, 90 percent and bolded. I think that looks good, and it seems to work well across all platforms. (On the older Kindles, it simply defaults to full caps, which is acceptable.)