Touch KT crashing on page turns after upgrade to 3.0.1 - Page 2

jusmee · 01-23-2014, 05:07 PM

I am not just talking about losing your place in the book. It loses that because it never gets a chance to save the current page data. It was much worse than that. At times it went right back to asking what language to use for the device (as in initial setup), and other times, it forgot the font I had told it to use.

davidfor · 01-23-2014, 06:54 PM

jusmee: With those symptoms, it suggests that the database was corrupted somehow. A corrupt database or file system after a crash of any computer isn't unexpected. of course, that doesn't help with why it is crashing in the first place.

The problem with 3.0.1 sounds like a hardware problem. Specifically, a failing internal SD card. But, as 2.6.1 works, that isn't likely. The only way it could be is if 3.0.1 is writing to the database a lot more often. I would be tempted to try another SD card and see if there is a difference.

Other than that, I can't think of anything. 3.0.1 ran perfectly well on my N905 Touch. While generally I use my Glo, I do test the Touch with all firmware versions. And my sons have been using the Touch a lot lately.

jusmee · 01-23-2014, 10:37 PM

I am a little doubtful that a failing SD Card would only cause a crash on a page turn. You would see lots of other instability, especially when starting up/rebooting, sorting the library etc etc.. In fact, a page turn is one of things least likely to be making database changes, as it doesn't even store the current page number until it sleeps, or if you exit the book (that's why it loses it's place when it crashes).

Nevertheless, I will try it.

Was your touch the same hardware model (N905B) as mine (not that the number is a guarantee of much when they change software without changing version numbers) ?

davidfor · 01-23-2014, 11:12 PM

The problem is what could it be. The failing SD card is just what came to mind and I feel matches the rest of the symptoms. Your probably right about the database write, but the crash could be hiding what happens there.

My Touch is the N905. The hardware is definitely different as the N905 doesn't have an internal SD card. I actually have two of these and an N905B with a broken screen. I've been meaning to see if I can move a screen to the N905B.

I'll send you a PM with a link to the N905B image I have. It might be worth trying that on the new card just in case something is wrong on the current card and gets copied across.

And because it hasn't been asked before, what type of books are you reading? Did you try one that had been sideloaded with 3.0.1? I have had some crashes in that were caused by bad books and bad entries in the database. I haven't seen one with a recent firmware, but I tend to clean up my epubs before reading them. Is there any chance of seeing a book that has caused the crash? Or, grab an epub from the MR library and see if it happens with that. That gives a common book anyone can use. They tend to be well structured which means they shouldn't cause problems.

TechniSol · 01-23-2014, 11:26 PM

I like Davidfor's notion that it might be storage related. One might have a hard time "seeking" or reading from locations just used to store the book and get stuck waiting for data depending on how the drivers for sdhc were written... As long as no other memory locations other than actual file storage were affected there would be no reason to expect trouble with anything else the Kobo is doing.

I'm not saying that is it, but wouldn't a sdhc repair tool allow you to copy the card's contents and format/check disk/repair it? A pain surely, but one more thing you might eliminate. Internal SDHC or external based on where the ebooks were stored and if your model has an internal sdhc.

jusmee · 01-23-2014, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidfor

The problem is what could it be. The failing SD card is just what came to mind and I feel matches the rest of the symptoms. Your probably right about the database write, but the crash could be hiding what happens there.

My Touch is the N905. The hardware is definitely different as the N905 doesn't have an internal SD card. I actually have two of these and an N905B with a broken screen. I've been meaning to see if I can move a screen to the N905B.

I'll send you a PM with a link to the N905B image I have. It might be worth trying that on the new card just in case something is wrong on the current card and gets copied across.

And because it hasn't been asked before, what type of books are you reading? Did you try one that had been sideloaded with 3.0.1? I have had some crashes in that were caused by bad books and bad entries in the database. I haven't seen one with a recent firmware, but I tend to clean up my epubs before reading them. Is there any chance of seeing a book that has caused the crash? Or, grab an epub from the MR library and see if it happens with that. That gives a common book anyone can use. They tend to be well structured which means they shouldn't cause problems.

I have an SD card with an image on it, I just put that in and upgraded it. Will see how it goes.

It's not just one book, and these books are epubs created/converted by Calibre. What's more, they work fine with 2.6.1. I know Kobo do some silly things with their software, but surely version 3 software shouldn't crash on books that worked with version 2? It should be getting more stable, not less.

jusmee · 01-23-2014, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechniSol

I like Davidfor's notion that it might be storage related. One might have a hard time "seeking" or reading from locations just used to store the book and get stuck waiting for data depending on how the drivers for sdhc were written... As long as no other memory locations other than actual file storage were affected there would be no reason to expect trouble with anything else the Kobo is doing.

I'm not saying that is it, but wouldn't a sdhc repair tool allow you to copy the card's contents and format/check disk/repair it? A pain surely, but one more thing you might eliminate. Internal SDHC or external based on where the ebooks were stored and if your model has an internal sdhc.

But it caches pages ahead of time, so the read should have already happened before I turn the page.

Anyway, I am on a totally new card now. I am not using an external card btw. We'll see how it goes.

TechniSol · 01-25-2014, 01:48 AM

Sure, the read and transfer into the cache should happen ahead of time... providing it can do the read. More importantly, I hope you find the solution.

I've no idea how deep the cache may be, but I've heard of people complaining some books took forever to load come back and say they resolved the problem by splitting them into smaller files, usually by chapter. If so, the cache or buffer might be quite a size. Doesn't really matter as a bad byte might be anywhere... assuming some mechanism is employed to indicate bad data or that the sdhc can be damaged in such a way that the routine sits waiting for a handshake on valid data or the like.

Ken Maltby · 01-25-2014, 02:59 AM

You might try the alternative readers with the different Touch FW (the Touch family is a little problematic, in some cases, for them as well) there may be a FW issue there also.
Since you are talking about problems with the reading software performance, the other readers might not have the same problem.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=226456

Luck;
Ken

jusmee · 01-25-2014, 03:19 AM

That is interesting stuff that I was not aware of. Thanks.

Neumanic · 02-19-2014, 06:07 PM

Glad to see a thread devoted to the problem I've been having on my Touch (N905B) since I upgraded to 3.0.1. At random intervals (anywhere from 1-20 pages), the page takes anywhere from 30-90 seconds to turn. Obviously this is quite a pain.

However - and I think this is a clue which I haven't seen yet - I don't have this issue on books purchased and downloaded from the Kobo site. Only from epubs that have come from other sources. (Sorry, not sure if "sideloading" refers to the practice of loading epub files onto the reader from non-Kobo sources, so have refrained from using this term). Based on that and what little I know about epub formats, I think it's an improperly-formatted epub file.

Seems my three options are:
1. Install an alternative reader (may not fix the epub load issue)
2. Re-configure epub files in Calibre
3. Revert to earlier firmware.

Inertia has precluded my doing any of this yet but I think the time has come.

01-23-2014, 10:37 PM	#18
jusmee Wizard Posts: 1,047 Karma: 203682 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Libre 2	I am a little doubtful that a failing SD Card would only cause a crash on a page turn. You would see lots of other instability, especially when starting up/rebooting, sorting the library etc etc.. In fact, a page turn is one of things least likely to be making database changes, as it doesn't even store the current page number until it sleeps, or if you exit the book (that's why it loses it's place when it crashes). Nevertheless, I will try it. Was your touch the same hardware model (N905B) as mine (not that the number is a guarantee of much when they change software without changing version numbers) ? Last edited by jusmee; 01-23-2014 at 10:47 PM.

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01-23-2014, 05:07 PM	#16
jusmee Wizard Posts: 1,047 Karma: 203682 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Libre 2	I am not just talking about losing your place in the book. It loses that because it never gets a chance to save the current page data. It was much worse than that. At times it went right back to asking what language to use for the device (as in initial setup), and other times, it forgot the font I had told it to use.

01-23-2014, 06:54 PM	#17
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,905 Karma: 47303824 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	jusmee: With those symptoms, it suggests that the database was corrupted somehow. A corrupt database or file system after a crash of any computer isn't unexpected. of course, that doesn't help with why it is crashing in the first place. The problem with 3.0.1 sounds like a hardware problem. Specifically, a failing internal SD card. But, as 2.6.1 works, that isn't likely. The only way it could be is if 3.0.1 is writing to the database a lot more often. I would be tempted to try another SD card and see if there is a difference. Other than that, I can't think of anything. 3.0.1 ran perfectly well on my N905 Touch. While generally I use my Glo, I do test the Touch with all firmware versions. And my sons have been using the Touch a lot lately.

01-23-2014, 11:12 PM	#19
davidfor Grand Sorcerer Posts: 24,905 Karma: 47303824 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney, Australia Device: Kobo:Touch,Glo, AuraH2O, GloHD,AuraONE, ClaraHD, Libra H2O; tolinoepos	The problem is what could it be. The failing SD card is just what came to mind and I feel matches the rest of the symptoms. Your probably right about the database write, but the crash could be hiding what happens there. My Touch is the N905. The hardware is definitely different as the N905 doesn't have an internal SD card. I actually have two of these and an N905B with a broken screen. I've been meaning to see if I can move a screen to the N905B. I'll send you a PM with a link to the N905B image I have. It might be worth trying that on the new card just in case something is wrong on the current card and gets copied across. And because it hasn't been asked before, what type of books are you reading? Did you try one that had been sideloaded with 3.0.1? I have had some crashes in that were caused by bad books and bad entries in the database. I haven't seen one with a recent firmware, but I tend to clean up my epubs before reading them. Is there any chance of seeing a book that has caused the crash? Or, grab an epub from the MR library and see if it happens with that. That gives a common book anyone can use. They tend to be well structured which means they shouldn't cause problems.

01-23-2014, 11:26 PM	#20
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	I like Davidfor's notion that it might be storage related. One might have a hard time "seeking" or reading from locations just used to store the book and get stuck waiting for data depending on how the drivers for sdhc were written... As long as no other memory locations other than actual file storage were affected there would be no reason to expect trouble with anything else the Kobo is doing. I'm not saying that is it, but wouldn't a sdhc repair tool allow you to copy the card's contents and format/check disk/repair it? A pain surely, but one more thing you might eliminate. Internal SDHC or external based on where the ebooks were stored and if your model has an internal sdhc.

01-25-2014, 01:48 AM	#23
TechniSol GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool! Posts: 1,056 Karma: 3151024 Join Date: Jul 2010 Device: Nook STRs, Kobo Touch, Kobo Glo	Sure, the read and transfer into the cache should happen ahead of time... providing it can do the read. More importantly, I hope you find the solution. I've no idea how deep the cache may be, but I've heard of people complaining some books took forever to load come back and say they resolved the problem by splitting them into smaller files, usually by chapter. If so, the cache or buffer might be quite a size. Doesn't really matter as a bad byte might be anywhere... assuming some mechanism is employed to indicate bad data or that the sdhc can be damaged in such a way that the routine sits waiting for a handshake on valid data or the like.

01-25-2014, 02:59 AM	#24
Ken Maltby Wizard Posts: 4,466 Karma: 6900052 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: The Heart of Texas Device: Boox Note2, AuraHD, PDA,	You might try the alternative readers with the different Touch FW (the Touch family is a little problematic, in some cases, for them as well) there may be a FW issue there also. Since you are talking about problems with the reading software performance, the other readers might not have the same problem. https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=226456 Luck; Ken

01-25-2014, 03:19 AM	#25
jusmee Wizard Posts: 1,047 Karma: 203682 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Libre 2	That is interesting stuff that I was not aware of. Thanks.

02-19-2014, 06:07 PM	#26
Neumanic Junior Member Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Feb 2014 Device: Kobo Touch	Glad to see a thread devoted to the problem I've been having on my Touch (N905B) since I upgraded to 3.0.1. At random intervals (anywhere from 1-20 pages), the page takes anywhere from 30-90 seconds to turn. Obviously this is quite a pain. However - and I think this is a clue which I haven't seen yet - I don't have this issue on books purchased and downloaded from the Kobo site. Only from epubs that have come from other sources. (Sorry, not sure if "sideloading" refers to the practice of loading epub files onto the reader from non-Kobo sources, so have refrained from using this term). Based on that and what little I know about epub formats, I think it's an improperly-formatted epub file. Seems my three options are: 1. Install an alternative reader (may not fix the epub load issue) 2. Re-configure epub files in Calibre 3. Revert to earlier firmware. Inertia has precluded my doing any of this yet but I think the time has come.