FBI charges Megaupload operators with piracy crimes

[Quexos]

You either stand on the legal sale of goods or you don't, regardless of what the good is, you cannot say it's wrong to download a book and it's right to steal food. You are the one offending such children by upholding the system as it currently is.
Point made, enough said. If you and others don't get it now then any further debate is futile.

Originally Posted by TGS

Are you suggesting an analogy between stealing food to keep your children alive when you have no other way of obtaining it, and breaching copyright on items of entertainment. If you are this is offensive to those tens of thousands of children who die every day because they do not enough food to stay alive - and it's a rubbish analogy.

[TGS]

Originally Posted by Quexos

You either stand on the legal sale of goods or you don't, regardless of what the good is, you cannot say it's wrong to download a book and it's right to steal food. .

I wasn't saying it is wrong to download a book but OK to steal food - I was saying your analogy is rubbish. However, I do think there is a moral difference between stealing food to keep your child alive and breaching someone's copyright because you don't want to pay for your entertainment - one of them is theft and the other isn't for one thing.

[Ekaros]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Being a resident and being a citizen has to have different implications, no?

You can't kick out citizen from country, I believe in extreme cases you can do that for resident, like murder and after sentence they maybe deported...

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Ekaros

You can't kick out citizen from country, I believe in extreme cases you can do that for resident, like murder and after sentence they maybe deported...

People who have been granted citizenship can have their citizenship revoked, and be deported. This has happened in the UK for people convicted of particularly unpleasant crimes.

[miguel1626]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

I was thinking more in terms of extradition. Many countries won't extradite their own citizens unless the crime has ocurred in the country asking for extradition, and then it usually has to be a violent crime. In Mr Dotcom's case the crimes has taken place globally and - as far as I know - nobody gut physically injured. However, if it is not a citizen then extraditions rules tend to be more lenient.

Regarding UK Law, see this post and the Extradition Act 2003.

The aforementioned Act allows UK Citizens to be extradited even for non-violent crimes. S.137(2):

The conduct constitutes an extradition offence in relation to the category 2 territory if these conditions are satisfied—
(a) the conduct occurs in the category 2 territory;
(b) the conduct would constitute an offence under the law of the relevant part of the United Kingdom punishable with imprisonment or another form of detention for a term of 12 months or a greater punishment if it occurred in that part of the United Kingdom;
(c) the conduct is so punishable under the law of the category 2 territory (however it is described in that law).

And apparently, British courts broadly construe (a) to include crimes committed while in UK soil but primarily affecting citizens of said category 2 territories.

[Ninjalawyer]

Originally Posted by Quexos

You either stand on the legal sale of goods or you don't, regardless of what the good is, you cannot say it's wrong to download a book and it's right to steal food. You are the one offending such children by upholding the system as it currently is.
Point made, enough said. If you and others don't get it now then any further debate is futile.

When my kids were young, I refused to download illicitly, even when they were intellectually starving. God, it was heartbreaking to hear them use phrases like "I saws a pretty birdie tha other day", or "I can't not do it", it was all I could do to not sneak off with a loaf of James Joyce or Mark Twain to feed their emaciated minds. But you know what? I never did it, I never stole.

My kids are grown now, my daughter writes shows for Fox, and my son spends his days on internet forums making bad analogies, writing posts that make it painfully clear that he's oblivious to any moral degrees between black or white. Every time I read my one of my son's clichéd filled posts, more soundbite than actual thought, I think of what could have been and die a little on the inside. My kids don't hate me, but how could they? They don't even know that the hole exists. I hate myself for them.

[HappyMartin]

I think this extradition thing is great. In South Africa we have a hate speech law because after years of apartheid we are a bit sensitive to that stuff. I think we should extradite that idiot pastor that wanted to burn the Koran. We don't like that and it is a crime here. Give him to us and we can stick his sorry butt in one of our prisons and you guys can be free of him. It's a win win.

Sorry for the sarcasm above. Sorry to those that I confused and didn't realize I was being sarcastic. I think it ridiculous that this man can be extradited to the US. On such a tenuous connection. It's not cyberterrorism, it's superpower terrorism.

Of course I think he is involved in criminal activities but New Zealand should handle it. Why not, it is a country that is well run with a mature democracy, a legitimate respected legal system and they are the rugby world cup holders.

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by HappyMartin

I think this extradition thing is great. In South Africa we have a hate speech law because after years of apartheid we are a bit sensitive to that stuff. I think we should extradite that idiot pastor that wanted to burn the Koran. We don't like that and it is a crime here. Give him to us and we can stick his sorry butt in one of our prisons and you guys can be free of him. It's a win win.

It has to be a crime in both countries.

Sorry for the sarcasm above. Sorry to those that I confused and didn't realize I was being sarcastic. I think it ridiculous that this man can be extradited to the US. On such a tenuous connection. It's not cyberterrorism, it's superpower terrorism.

It's not cyberterrorism either.

And I'm not sure why you think that operating 500+ servers in the US is a "tenuous" connection.

Of course I think he is involved in criminal activities but New Zealand should handle it. Why not, it is a country that is well run with a mature democracy, a legitimate respected legal system and they are the rugby world cup holders.

Although what he did was illegal in NZ, I don't think he committed a crime in NZ. His company is based in Hong Kong, his servers were based in the US, Holland, and, maybe China. I think the only thing he did in NZ is live there.

(I should also point out that extradition proceedings have just begun in NZ; it will probably take several months before a NZ court issues an order actually extraditing him, assuming they do so).

[Giggleton]

Every site should just split their ad revenue amongst the most "popular" downloads. Sort of like what Amazon is experimenting with. This is only a short term solution though, once everything is available freely to everyone, compensation really does become an issue, although it is not an intractable issue.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Every site should just split their ad revenue amongst the most "popular" downloads. Sort of like what Amazon is experimenting with. This is only a short term solution though, once everything is available freely to everyone, compensation really does become an issue, although it is not an intractable issue.

You are more likely to see a tax on internet access, with the money going to corporations rather than creators. Or more likely the trade bodies that "look after" corporation interests. A bit like the tax some countries charge on blank media.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Every site should just split their ad revenue amongst the most "popular" downloads. Sort of like what Amazon is experimenting with. This is only a short term solution though, once everything is available freely to everyone, compensation really does become an issue, although it is not an intractable issue.

That is one of the things that is going to bury the MU gang; they *paid* for illegal content uploads. Knowingly. On purpose. And (hold on to your hats) they kept all the emails where they informed each other, going back 6 years.

http://synecdochic.dreamwidth.org/522290.html

We're not just talking "smoking gun" here; it's the equivalent of video with mugging for the camera.

Essentially, the FBI fully documented (with the gang's own emails) that Megaupload's primary purpose and revenue generation engine was the unlicensed distribution of copyrighted material. Any non-infringing use of the service was incidental and minor compared to the illegal activity.

It looks like it's all over but the plea bargains.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

That is one of the things that is going to bury the MU gang; they *paid* for illegal content uploads. Knowingly. On purpose. And (hold on to your hats) they kept all the emails where they informed each other, going back 6 years.

http://synecdochic.dreamwidth.org/522290.html

We're not just talking "smoking gun" here; it's the equivalent of video with mugging for the camera.

Essentially, the FBI fully documented (with the gang's own emails) that Megaupload's primary purpose and revenue generation engine was the unlicensed distribution of copyrighted material. Any non-infringing use of the service was incidental and minor compared to the illegal activity.

It looks like it's all over but the plea bargains.

Nice to know just what kind of people it is that "Anonymous" are defending.

[karunaji]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Nice to know just what kind of people it is that "Anonymous" are defending.

It is expected that they will go even more underground. It will become the prime breeding ground for illegal activities. In short, the current copyright laws creates terrorists. It is sad but I really don't see anyone coming to their senses.

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by karunaji

In short, the current copyright laws creates terrorists.

no that would be greed and entitlement.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

That is one of the things that is going to bury the MU gang; they *paid* for illegal content uploads. Knowingly. On purpose.

I didn't know they paid for content that is popular, but that's no different to what Youtube does as far as I can see.