TechCrunch: Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Ben Thornton

Interesting related article in the Guardian.

that's a good article. Money quote:

Amazon, by building its own app store, has the chance to overturn the established order; it's the first proper challenge that the iPad will face in terms of a rival that can offer not just a product, but also something to fill the product. If it really succeeds, it could even draw developers out of the wider Android Market and into the Amazon app store exclusively. Once that starts to happen, Google will have a dilemma: is it good or bad if more of the money being made out of Android app sales is going to someone else? Will Amazon lock out rival tablet makers such as Samsung from its app store? (I expect so.) Is that good or bad for Android on tablets? What should Google do?

And there's Google's problem. Its relationship with its users is too like Microsoft's. Instead it needs to be more like Amazon. But competing there would cause problems too. Android for tablet sits on the horns of a dilemma: what it needs to succeed – a content retailer about to challenge Apple – might be what kills off rival makers. And if Google tries to change the rules of the game – say, by insisting that Amazon open its app store – then it could break everything.

I think its clear that Amazon's offering is much more of a headache for GOOGLE than it is for APPLE. After all, Amazon will be competing directly with Google at first by offering a separate app market, book store, and video store . Once Google Music rolls out, they will compete in music too.
Apple, meanwhile, can exist in "splendid isolation", while those two fight it out for king of the Android hill.
The issue will be decided, not on which of the two has the best hardware geegaws, much less " openness", but on which of the two offers the best buying and user experience to the person who buys their tablet.

[stonetools]

Meanwhile, general consumers on the periphery are just hearing "Nook Color... Nook Color... Nook Color..." and maybe getting the vague impression that smart people like the device. Even over on the B&N forums, the majority of users are running stock solely or primarily, and even many of those buying pre-made CM7 cards treat it as a novelty and continue buying books from B&N and reading them in the stock reader.

The majority of people picking up their NC at brick-and-mortar stores, however (Walmart, Staples, Best Buy & etc in addition to B&N), will never visit an internet forum, never hear of CM7, and continue playing Angry Birds and reading James Patterson by the path of least resistance: B&N's e-store.

I would say that you credit the buzz about the hackability of the NC much more than I do as contributing to commercial success of the NC. You and I will have to agree to disagree on how much "openness" helped the NC. I think where we would agree that Amazon will take a completely different approach- one that the "openness'" folks won't like. We'll see who does better.

[OtterBooks]

If Amazon's device is successful enough to attract more high quality tablet-oriented android development (several million more android tablet users are difficult to ignore), it seems like consumers of any android device would benefit.

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

If Amazon's device is successful enough to attract more high quality tablet-oriented android development (several million more android tablet users are difficult to ignore), it seems like consumers of any android device would benefit.

+1 Android aside, for the sake of the ebook market, I hope both companies remain competitive and alternatives continue to emerge.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by taosaur

+1 Android aside, for the sake of the ebook market, I hope both companies remain competitive and alternatives continue to emerge.

I think, hope, there will be healthy competition. Massive iOS sales created a huge talent pool of iOS development... limited to apple devices. Massive Amazon tab sales could be such a boost to android development that it winds up helping the competition. They can "lock down" their device all they want: android is still android, and developers aren't going to limit themselves to Amazon. If that happens, Amazon is gonna have their work cut out for them. We'll see.

[stonetools]

I am not a techie, but where there may be a problem is fragmentation. That has been a BIG DEAL in the smart phone market, where you had several versions of Android on the market at one time (from 1.5 to 2.2). Android aficionados would rail against manufacturers for being slow with updates and against carriers for "loading up" Android with "skins" and " crapware". The furor has subsided a little ( I think), but is still ongoing.
For tablets, it looks like the problem may be even worse. Amazon has apparently forked Android from a pre-2.2 version, and clearly intends to go its own way. Most Android tablets are running on Honeycomb (3.2?)and will presumably be getting Ice Cream Sandwich next year or whenever. B&N is running Gingerbread (2.3?) on NC and may or may not upgrade to Honeycomb. Hard to make a business case why it should, since HC offers functionality that is not needed for ebook and e-magazine reading.
What that means for devs is that they may have to develop several versions of the same Android app (vs only one for Ios). That may make it MORE expensive to develop for Android ( a platform for which they on average make LESS money than for Ios). That's going to continue to disadvantage Android development relative to Ios, I think.

[kartu]

I don't get what's the deal to be listed on both Googles app store and amazon app store. Does amazon plan to ask for exclusiveness?

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I am not a techie,

That fact becomes quite clear as your post goes on. We're all speculating here, and I by no means have a deep, code-based understanding of the Android platform, but your concerns are largely groundless. While it is in a dev's interest to keep their apps as broadly compatible as possible, Android has not forked so far that "different versions" are required, except insofar as a device with an out-of-date OS may have to run an older version of a given app. There are some Honeycomb-specific apps, but that has more to do with hardware than software. The NC will never have Honeycomb (and the stock OS is Froyo, btw, not Gingerbread) because Google has strict hardware requirements for licensing Honeycomb, permitting the development of apps that rely on, for instance, a dual-core processor.

Even Amazon can only "go its own way" to a certain extent. Their app market still has to remain compatible with the Android products that are already using it, and if they had the development resources to maintain and update a truly proprietary OS, they wouldn't be building on Android in the first place. From the sound of things, they are working to integrate their core apps and services into their OS at the same level that Google has integrated their services into licensed Android products. Aside from perhaps making more work for anyone wanting to root the device and run Google services, that forking is trivial in terms of app compatibility.

Devices running 1.x are either quite old, or were never intended to be compatible with an app market, and aren't a concern in terms of fragmentation. Lots of manufacturers use Android because it's free and ready made, but their devices are not actually part of the ecosystem, and thus of no concern to either app developers or Google.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

If Amazon's device is successful enough to attract more high quality tablet-oriented android development (several million more android tablet users are difficult to ignore), it seems like consumers of any android device would benefit.

I don't think any success Amazon has will be easily replicated by others any more than Apple's. It won't be about building a tablet, it will be about having an entire ecosystem.

Lee

[leebase]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

I think, hope, there will be healthy competition. Massive iOS sales created a huge talent pool of iOS development... limited to apple devices. Massive Amazon tab sales could be such a boost to android development that it winds up helping the competition. They can "lock down" their device all they want: android is still android, and developers aren't going to limit themselves to Amazon. If that happens, Amazon is gonna have their work cut out for them. We'll see.

Amazon won't care. They aren't entering the tablet business. They are extending their Amazon store, music, videos & books to a tablet. It won't matter to them one bit if developers make games that run on their device and other devices.

Now GOOGLE is going to care as the whole point of Android is to tie people into Google services -- and Amazon isn't doing that.

Lee

[John F]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I think the only step forward for the Kindle would be a touch screen interface. Other than, there really isn't much you can do with eink reader hardware design , IMO. ...

My guess is they will go Touch screen and higher resolution eInk. They have locked in the newer higher resolution eInk screens (which is why Sony didn't use them in it's latest offerings, Sony can't get the quantities they would need). Just a WAG.

[jocampo]

Upgrades to Honeycomb, Froyo or Gingerbread devices, is going to be more difficult I believe. Last time I read Honeycomb's code source was locked, in other words, is not fully open source. That makes it difficult to convert or rewrite upgrade code for existing tables.

That was a Google's move in order to minimize or reduce software issues and bugs, which we started to notice on many devices, because the hardware differences. The M Xoom is a great example. Now, Motorola's purchase supposes to get rid of that and helps with a tighter software and hardware integration.

I would not expect many Honeycomb upgrades on existing tables or put my bet on that.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by taosaur

That fact becomes quite clear as your post goes on. We're all speculating here, and I by no means have a deep, code-based understanding of the Android platform, but your concerns are largely groundless. While it is in a dev's interest to keep their apps as broadly compatible as possible, Android has not forked so far that "different versions" are required, except insofar as a device with an out-of-date OS may have to run an older version of a given app. There are some Honeycomb-specific apps, but that has more to do with hardware than software. The NC will never have Honeycomb (and the stock OS is Froyo, btw, not Gingerbread) because Google has strict hardware requirements for licensing Honeycomb, permitting the development of apps that rely on, for instance, a dual-core processor.

Even Amazon can only "go its own way" to a certain extent. Their app market still has to remain compatible with the Android products that are already using it, and if they had the development resources to maintain and update a truly proprietary OS, they wouldn't be building on Android in the first place. From the sound of things, they are working to integrate their core apps and services into their OS at the same level that Google has integrated their services into licensed Android products. Aside from perhaps making more work for anyone wanting to root the device and run Google services, that forking is trivial in terms of app compatibility.

Devices running 1.x are either quite old, or were never intended to be compatible with an app market, and aren't a concern in terms of fragmentation. Lots of manufacturers use Android because it's free and ready made, but their devices are not actually part of the ecosystem, and thus of no concern to either app developers or Google.

You see no technical reason why the Google and Amazon Android products should not be compatible. I bow to your superior technical expertise on that issue. However, looking at things from a business POV, I am considerably less sanguine that Google and Amazon are going to live in perfect harmony. I see two competing ecosystems, with considerable incentive to put up walls. I think it quite likely that Amazon will sign exclusivity deals for certain games and apps. I think the Amazon market will be far more closely curated than the anything-goes Google Market, with the result that apps will be approved for the GM athat will not be approved for he Amazon app store. All this will create headaches-and opportunies- for mobile developers, who may forego these uncertainties and opt for the Ios market.
However, both Android ecosystems could still flourish. As to which will do better, it will be the one that offers the best buying and user experience. I would bet on Amazon, its more "closed" ecosystem, nothwithstanding.

[boswd]

I've been reading alot of tech sites about the upcoming Kindle tablet. I think many of them are in for a major disappointment.
This is going to be Amazon's answer to the Nook color, not a small answer to the iPad.

I'm not sure what people are expecting but my guess is more than what will be offered.
The Amazon 10 inch is the one tech pundits should be more interested in.

[boswd]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I am not a techie, but where there may be a problem is fragmentation. That has been a BIG DEAL in the smart phone market, where you had several versions of Android on the market at one time (from 1.5 to 2.2). Android aficionados would rail against manufacturers for being slow with updates and against carriers for "loading up" Android with "skins" and " crapware". The furor has subsided a little ( I think), but is still ongoing.
For tablets, it looks like the problem may be even worse. Amazon has apparently forked Android from a pre-2.2 version, and clearly intends to go its own way. Most Android tablets are running on Honeycomb (3.2?)and will presumably be getting Ice Cream Sandwich next year or whenever. B&N is running Gingerbread (2.3?) on NC and may or may not upgrade to Honeycomb. Hard to make a business case why it should, since HC offers functionality that is not needed for ebook and e-magazine reading.
What that means for devs is that they may have to develop several versions of the same Android app (vs only one for Ios). That may make it MORE expensive to develop for Android ( a platform for which they on average make LESS money than for Ios). That's going to continue to disadvantage Android development relative to Ios, I think.

Fragmentation is an over used and in most cases out of context phrase.
almost 90% of all Android phones on the market are running 2.2 or higher and most apps are written for 2.1 and higher.