TechCrunch: Amazon’s Kindle Tablet Is Very Real

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Well, OK, nobody said, "Amazon was a force for evil". Got me there.
I guarantee you , though, that if Amazon made the Ktab so that it couldn't be rooted and flashed with a custom ROM, the cries, "Amazon is evil" would rise to high heaven.

It's been a near certainty all along that any Amazon tablet would be, at the very least, difficult or unrewarding to root/hack/flash. It's nothing new that Amazon's business practices with regard to digital media are not compatible with my priorities or interests. So long as they have meaningful competition, it's also not a major concern.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by taosaur

It's been a near certainty all along that any Amazon tablet would be, at the very least, difficult or unrewarding to root/hack/flash.

How so? Where is this information coming from? Was the Nook Color intentionally made to be easily rooted/hacked? I guess that worked out for them, if so.

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

How so? Where is this information coming from?

I just don't get the impression anyone is chomping at the bit to get into the guts of this thing. Amazon is innovative about sales and marketing, not hardware and design. Just look at the Kindle--it's a giant, beige pocket calculator circa 1986. The buzz around the Amazon tablet was always that Amazon was making it, not that it was going to be a good tablet. No doubt it will get rooted just on principle, but chances are there won't be much to be gained by doing so, and one would be just as well off using it as-is or getting a different device.

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

Was the Nook Color intentionally made to be easily rooted/hacked? I guess that worked out for them, if so.

There's been no statement of intentionality, but unlike a lot of mobile device manufacturers and distributors, B&N put no impediments in place, made no attempts to discourage modifying the software, and made the device as accessible as a desktop PC by making it boot first from external media. They also released a lot more machine than their software was using, running the CPU at 80% of its rated speed and 60% of its potential, with an unused bluetooth radio on board, among other things.

If it was B&N's hope or intention that this configuration would give the device--and their Nook brand in general--legs with the volunteer development community and thereby the tech blogs, slow clap for them, indeed.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by taosaur

Just look at the Kindle--it's a giant, beige pocket calculator circa 1986.

Untrue. It's really more of a gray, heh. I see your point. Then again, it's merely an electronic alternative to a paper book. Graphing calculator design hasn't changed much in 15 years, maybe 20 (and their price hasn't gone down much either; $125+ for the good ones, yipes). Microwave oven design has stagnated. Dedicated devices tend to hit a design ceiling, I think.

I'd like to see an improved display and cpu for the Kindle, but other than that I would be fine with the form factor staying that way forever.

[stonetools]

The problem I see with B & N's approach is that it's not really clear that they achieved their their major goal, which is to sell more B & N stuff. The hackers who bought the NCs seem to take pride in saying that the first thing they did was to install the Kindle app!
Still, B & N may be playing the long game. I don't know that the Android developer community has given back much to B &N as a result of this, but maybe it will benefit them in the end. Amazon is likely to think B&N took the wrong approach by making the NC too open, and from a business POV, they may be right.

[Barty]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The problem I see with B & N's approach as I see it is that it's not really clear that they achieved their their major goal, which is to sell more B & N stuff. The hackers who bought the NCs seem to take pride in saying that the first thing they did was to install the Kindle app!
Still, B & N may be playing the long game. I don't know that the Android developer community has given back much to B &N as a result of this, but maybe it will benefit them in the end. Amazon is likely to think B&N took the wrong approach by making the NC too open, and from a business POV, they may be right.

Yes. Seems to me the attraction of the nook color is geeks getting something extra for their dollars, like a batch of CPUs that overclock really well. Doesn't necessarily help you with the market overall, and it's not the kind of success you can or want to repeat.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

Untrue. It's really more of a gray, heh. I see your point. Then again, it's merely an electronic alternative to a paper book. Graphing calculator design hasn't changed much in 15 years, maybe 20 (and their price hasn't gone down much either; $125+ for the good ones, yipes). Microwave oven design has stagnated. Dedicated devices tend to hit a design ceiling, I think.

I'd like to see an improved display and cpu for the Kindle, but other than that I would be fine with the form factor staying that way forever.

I think the only step forward for the Kindle would be a touch screen interface. Other than, there really isn't much you can do with eink reader hardware design , IMO. I hear quite a few complaints, though, about Kindle software- making the Collections feature better, etc.
In the end, I think we may be seeing if not the last generation of eink readers, at least the NEXT to last generation. People seem to want more than just the ability to read plain text really well in bright light on their mobile devices.

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by stonetools

The problem I see with B & N's approach is that it's not really clear that they achieved their their major goal, which is to sell more B & N stuff. The hackers who bought the NCs seem to take pride in saying that the first thing they did was to install the Kindle app!
Still, B & N may be playing the long game. I don't know that the Android developer community has given back much to B &N as a result of this, but maybe it will benefit them in the end. Amazon is likely to think B&N took the wrong approach by making the NC too open, and from a business POV, they may be right.

The developer community gave B&N months of buzz in the tech sphere that brought credibility and brand recognition for the Nook line to a critical mass that brought in a dozen non-hackers for every rooted, re-flashed or alt-booted device: enough to actually lend value to the social features tying the N2E, at its launch, to the NCs already in circulation. "The hackers who bought the NCs" are a slim minority of B&N's e-reader sales, who can take substantial credit for the remainder. And contrary to frequent speculation that the devices themselves are a loss leader, B&N had a slim margin of profit on the NC when it released, which has only grown as component costs have fallen in inverse relation to strengthening sales.

Again, if B&N in any way orchestrated those events (I give them credit at least for striking while the iron was hot with the timing of the N2E release), they are to be congratulated.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I think the only step forward for the Kindle would be a touch screen interface. Other than, there really isn't much you can do with eink reader hardware design , IMO. I hear quite a few complaints, though, about Kindle software- making the Collections feature better, etc.
In the end, I think we may be seeing if not the last generation of eink readers, at least the NEXT to last generation. People seem to want more than just the ability to read plain text really well in bright light on their mobile devices.

The touchscreen thing is controversial. For some, touchscreen is a deal killer. It's not a technological evolution (Amazon could have done it by now), but a navigation design change, and one that for many is not welcome.

Maybe they're endangered, I dunno, but people wanting more than the ability to read plain text doesn't mean they want it from their dedicated device. They want it, but they want it elsewhere. Just because I want something for making phone calls, doesn't mean I want it incorporated into my shoes.

Lets not forget that e-ink is a newer technology, developed to address LCD's shortcomings. It wasn't developed for lack of being able to make an LCD reader. Amazon could have made a $400 reader (the cost of the K1) with a low powered cpu and an LCD; if they had, ebooks would be probably be dying a slow death right now instead of growing at 300% per year. Readers' medium of choice is still paper, so I don't see all those people skipping over a device that simulates that experience for one that does not. Basically, e-ink will die when reading dies, or when some new display tech can address both uses acceptably. Granted, one or both of those may happen. imo.

[OldCrank]

Being a total newbie and seeing all the controversy, I think that Amazon needs to make this touch screen LCD Android. I also think they will need to keep the normal e-ink Kindle line alive. See most of it boils down to generation gaps. I know people using kindles and when I stop to look at who they are, the majority are "older" people, I know people using Androids for reading and when I stop to see who they are, they are mostly "younger" people. I grew up with CRTs and I hate LCD. My grandchildren wouldn't be caught dead with a CRT and LCD/LED/Plasma is "the only thing". Generations growing up with nothing other than LCD will welcome the touch screen Android. Generations growing up with real books will grudgingly use kindles because they look more like books. Generations in between may go either way from preference. I think for Amazon to keep the market and to keep their overall sales, they need both types and they need to keep it all proprietary as they are attempting to do. Do it like AT&T. Give the people touch screen Androids with plenty of Amazon only apps and they will rule the market. The rest will be players, but just players & Amazon will remain king if they cater to demand from all generations.

If I ever do break down and buy an e-reader, it will only be for one of two reasons; poor eyesight causing me to not be able to read book fonts (already happening) or lack of actual paperback books available (being replaced by e-book only). Otherwise I would never buy one of these things and if I do, it will have to be e-ink so it looks more like a real book.

I didn't qualify "older" & "younger" because it all depends on your age as to who you feel is older and who is younger. Older may be anyone from 25-100 and younger may be anyone from 40-10. I think it would be safe to say anyone currently younger than 25 would prefer (or be more used to) LCD and anyone older than 50 would possibly prefer e-ink.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by taosaur

The developer community gave B&N months of buzz in the tech sphere that brought credibility and brand recognition for the Nook line to a critical mass that brought in a dozen non-hackers for every rooted, re-flashed or alt-booted device: enough to actually lend value to the social features tying the N2E, at its launch, to the NCs already in circulation. "The hackers who bought the NCs" are a slim minority of B&N's e-reader sales, who can take substantial credit for the remainder. And contrary to frequent speculation that the devices themselves are a loss leader, B&N had a slim margin of profit on the NC when it released, which has only grown as component costs have fallen in inverse relation to strengthening sales.

Again, if B&N in any way orchestrated those events (I give them credit at least for striking while the iron was hot with the timing of the N2E release), they are to be congratulated.

Did buzz in the Dev community really result in increased sales of NCs among average users and sales of B&N content ? So far as I can tell, most hackers did not say, " Buy the NC so that you could get a better experience buying and using B&N content." Rather, the hackers said, " buy the NC because it's easy to hack it so that you can buy content on the Google market." Virtually every person who has rooted the NC on this forum seems to be doing just that. Hard to see how B&N benefits from that. I also didn't see the devs rally to create better games and apps for B&N , either. As I said, maybe building good will in the hacker community may result in some kind of gain for B&N long term. But so far, I don't think " open ness" has paid off for B&N .

Frankly, it seems that B&N has not benefited from their "open " approach. Maybe Amazon will do better with its approach.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

The touchscreen thing is controversial. For some, touchscreen is a deal killer. It's not a technological evolution (Amazon could have done it by now), but a navigation design change, and one that for many is not welcome.

Maybe they're endangered, I dunno, but people wanting more than the ability to read plain text doesn't mean they want it from their dedicated device. They want it, but they want it elsewhere. Just because I want something for making phone calls, doesn't mean I want it incorporated into my shoes.

Lets not forget that e-ink is a newer technology, developed to address LCD's shortcomings. It wasn't developed for lack of being able to make an LCD reader. Amazon could have made a $400 reader (the cost of the K1) with a low powered cpu and an LCD; if they had, ebooks would be probably be dying a slow death right now instead of growing at 300% per year. Readers' medium of choice is still paper, so I don't see all those people skipping over a device that simulates that experience for one that does not. Basically, e-ink will die when reading dies, or when some new display tech can address both uses acceptably. Granted, one or both of those may happen. imo.

I think e-ink will survive for quite some time. But the FOCUS among content sellers and distributors is clearly toward LCD. They want to distribute all reading content on ONE type screen, rather than a separate screen for reading novels only and another screen for every other type of reading (comics, magazines, web, etc.)

[Ben Thornton]

I suspect that the market for a colour tablet that does email and web access well, and that manages a wider range of content as well as Amazon already manage ebooks, is much bigger than the ebook reader market. With their ability to advertise Kindle on the front page of Amazon.com endlessly, I bet they sell a gazillion of them.

I doubt that they will abandon eInk dedicated readers until there is a screen technology that does both video/browsing and sunlight-readable text without compromise. Their strategy so far has been to make their content available through as many channels as possible - it would be mad for them to drop one without good reason.

It seems to me that this is an iPad competitor, not because it has similar specs or the same capabilities, but because it has the potential to do enough, and to "just work" for the key features people want, while being half the price.

[Ben Thornton]

Interesting related article in the Guardian.

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by stonetools

So far as I can tell, most hackers did not say, " Buy the NC so that you could get a better experience buying and using B&N content."

It doesn't matter what they were saying about it: only that they were talking about it, and tech writers were dutifully repeating them in a game of telephone that repeatedly made it's way out to Yahoo! News and the NYTimes. The NC was getting fresh press four and six and eight months into its lifespan, and moving more units without lowering prices (except through refurb back-channels which, for the most part, only people near the warm center of the tech sphere know enough about to take advantage in time).

You're frequenting an ereader news/discussion site (or sites?)--you're hearing "I got Kindle on my Nook Color..." "I got the Google market on my Nook Color..." "I'm playing Crysis on my Nook Color..."

Meanwhile, general consumers on the periphery are just hearing "Nook Color... Nook Color... Nook Color..." and maybe getting the vague impression that smart people like the device. Even over on the B&N forums, the majority of users are running stock solely or primarily, and even many of those buying pre-made CM7 cards treat it as a novelty and continue buying books from B&N and reading them in the stock reader.

The majority of people picking up their NC at brick-and-mortar stores, however (Walmart, Staples, Best Buy & etc in addition to B&N), will never visit an internet forum, never hear of CM7, and continue playing Angry Birds and reading James Patterson by the path of least resistance: B&N's e-store.

When Lifehacker's 64th article about turning an Ikea table into a computer desk comes out, do you assume Ikea will never sell another dinner plate?