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Old 08-11-2011, 10:51 AM   #31
Native
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I tend to read what I meant, not what I wrote. I KNOW the story, I KNOW what happens and who says what.
I not only read the words I meant, but also the voice I meant. For shock value, there's nothing like listening to someone else read it. Even your own mama can't save your tune from singing off-key and stripping the words out of rhythm. Just make sure there are no weapons handy as you listen.
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Old 08-16-2011, 02:05 PM   #32
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...when you read your own work, you tend to read what you meant to right, not what you wrote.
^^^THIS^^^

I worked in textbook publishing for years, and you would be blown away with how easy it is to automatically correct mistakes in your head. Especially when you are familiar with the writing.
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Old 08-19-2011, 03:00 PM   #33
marytg
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I'm so happy to see the discussion about proofing! It is absolutely astounding to me to see the tremendous number of the typographical, spelling and grammar errors in e-books, even from big publishing houses.

I wonder sometimes if anyone even reads the epub before submitting it to retailers!

Good point about having someone else read your book. It is amazing how our brains can "self-correct" errors.
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Old 08-19-2011, 09:16 PM   #34
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... It is absolutely astounding to me to see the tremendous number of the typographical, spelling and grammar errors in e-books, even from big publishing houses.
You know, this makes me think of reading Karin Lowachee's books, Warchild and its two sequels, all of which are trade published. It's almost as though the publisher just OCR scanned a print copy and sent it immediately off for ebook conversion. I don't know if anyone else here has read these - they're really, really excellent books and I HIGHLY recommend them - but the sheer number of typos in them (and it gets worse with each progressive book) made the "professional" publisher look really quite "un".

Proofing is really, really important, and it's about three times more important for an independent/self-publishing author. Those typos stand out, and every single one of them brings the reader out of the story, if only for a moment.
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Old 08-20-2011, 12:10 PM   #35
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Eisengoth,
I hadn't thought of that! Maybe that is how the errors get in. I agree completely about errors taking the reader out of the story. It would be a shame if readers get used to errors.

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it almost feels like the big publishers do a poor or no job of proofing on purpose. It is very hard to believe that they do an excellent job of proofing a print book and a very bad job of proofing an e-book accidentally.

Could it be they want to give e-books a black eye in general? A desperate attempt to keep print books alive? Hmmmmmm....

Check out this story about ebook errors.

He offers some interesting ideas about error-free certification.
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Old 08-20-2011, 06:37 PM   #36
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Nah - I've read enough hardcovers with lousy editing to disbelieve that.

Sometimes people just get greedy and/or sloppy.
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:04 PM   #37
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Nah - I've read enough hardcovers with lousy editing to disbelieve that.

Sometimes people just get greedy and/or sloppy.

Yea, I am sure its more of symptom rushing in to the ebook market at smallest possible cost.
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:06 PM   #38
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Eisengoth,
I hadn't thought of that! Maybe that is how the errors get in. I agree completely about errors taking the reader out of the story. It would be a shame if readers get used to errors.

I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but it almost feels like the big publishers do a poor or no job of proofing on purpose. It is very hard to believe that they do an excellent job of proofing a print book and a very bad job of proofing an e-book accidentally.

Could it be they want to give e-books a black eye in general? A desperate attempt to keep print books alive? Hmmmmmm....

Check out this story about ebook errors.

He offers some interesting ideas about error-free certification.
Thanks for the link... a very interesting article, indeed!

I'm not sure that it's malicious intent, although I allow for the possibility that there's a luddite editor out there somewhere sending the unedited proofs out to make the ebook, and then finalizing the proofreading for the print copy, but it's probably unlikely. I think it's more likely to be a general lack of caring.

For instance, with Warchild, the typos and general language weirdness were all things which were close to their intent, but not all the way there. Having a lot of experience with optical character recognition (OCR) scanning, it seems to get about 80% correct. The other 20% has to be done manually... and it looked to me like Warchild's editors just didn't do the 20%. Not malicious; just lazy.

It's an interesting point that we're more sensitive to errors in ebooks. I postulate that we might be even more sensitive to errors in independent ebooks... almost because we're expecting to see them, so we look for them. Then, when we do find one, we roll our eyes and go "Yep, there's the problem with indie authors" - where if it were a trade book, we'd just gloss over it and accept that it was something that just slipped through the cracks.
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Old 08-20-2011, 07:48 PM   #39
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@Eisengoth

I agree with this. I have been a reviewer for years and it's an odd book indeed that I don't find SOME error in. (Usually a missing/extra word in a sentence rather than a misspelling.) And that includes mainstream books. I don't get upset about it -- it's life.

The Amish supposedly leave an error in "on purpose" with each quilt because only God is perfect. (Of course, this is the excuse we quilters give when we see an error -- "I left that in on purpose.") I sort of feel the same way about books.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:07 AM   #40
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@Eisengoth

I agree with this. I have been a reviewer for years and it's an odd book indeed that I don't find SOME error in. (Usually a missing/extra word in a sentence rather than a misspelling.) And that includes mainstream books. I don't get upset about it -- it's life.

The Amish supposedly leave an error in "on purpose" with each quilt because only God is perfect. (Of course, this is the excuse we quilters give when we see an error -- "I left that in on purpose.") I sort of feel the same way about books.
Hmm... left it in on purpose. Well, if somebody should come across an error in my novel (it's been scrubbed quite thoroughly, but you never know) I'll be sure to tell them that! I love it! Thank you!

There's just only so much the human eye can catch, I think. Plus you never know what might happen from moving it between formats - conversion errors seem to be quite common. Something is bound to slip through, especially with longer works.
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Old 08-22-2011, 04:42 AM   #41
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[QUOTE=rhadin;1696994]We may call things by a different name here in the U.S. so it is possible we are saying the same thing but . . .

Actually, there are two types of editing: substantive/developmental and copy. Your "structural" is our substantive/developmental editing. That editing occurs during the writing process and before copyediting.

Copyediting occurs when the author believes he/she has a finished product ready for publication subject to the copyedit and the proofreading. Our copyediting is similar to your "proofing".]


I blogged about the subject this morning, then dropped by here today and found your reply. Great minds and all that ...

http://halspacejock.blogspot.com/201...l-editing.html
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