Speaking of editing...

exscentric · 07-31-2011, 07:49 PM

I've noted a couple of threads relating to editing and the desire of some to see more of it.

Two items:

1. This is just an observation. I am coming to believe that there are problems in data transfer on computers/web. I have a number of items on my website and I have noticed many typo type errors as well as formatting problems. I have not decided whether it is in my uploading or in backup/copy procedures on my computer.

I am in the process of revamping my files to take care of this.

2. What grammar/spell checking software do you find to be the best - if you find you need to use it.

I used to use Word's and Word Perfect's but with the 2007 office I cannot get both to load onto my computer without great interaction between the two installs.

Just curious if there is something out there that will make up for the failings of our great educational system - read that - inability to motivate me the first twelve years and the failure to correct the result in the last seven years

OneandonlyDoc · 07-31-2011, 08:07 PM

I avoid using any GRAMMAR check system (since nothing's a very good substitute for a human with a decent high school education (ie, paid attention in English and language classes to learn some grammar) who can reason through a situation...but for spelling, I check as I go against Word's built-in dictionary. Autocorrect is NOT turned on, however.

Native · 07-31-2011, 08:59 PM

On # 1 point, make sure you use a standard font to upload to websites and such; otherwise the punctuation may get lost in the shuffle. Did with me anyway.
For # 2 point, all I've ever used is Works and Word, and both are smarter spellers than me. For grammar - well, refer to # 1 point; computers don't talk in interesting fonts anyhow.

William F · 08-01-2011, 03:02 PM

Unfortunately technology is just not at the point where it can adequately proofread. It's good for a first pass to catch the major spelling issues but the old human brain is still the best software available. That, an Unabridged Dictionary and the old manual of style. I'd never ever turn on the grammar checker even though I got a D in grammar because I sat behind Lisa... Well anyway grammar checkers are awful.

And sadly Wordperfect is done for. As an independant author if you use anything other than Word you are just making your job that much harder.

exscentric · 08-01-2011, 05:38 PM

Thanks for your comments, thought maybe there was a magic bullet :-) I have found Word a good start but as has been indicated it is lacking.

Unfortunately my last English was in the 9th grade and barely made it through that. College etc. failed to see the need for English for some reason.

I must admit I have learned a lot by reading the rules/laws in the Word checker, but still struggle to get things into something presentable.

Catlady · 08-01-2011, 05:58 PM

I edit using Word. I use both the spellcheck and the grammar check, but only as a backup to find egregious mistakes. I verify each change.

What grammar check is useful for is finding things like a missing close quotation mark or a missing period at the end of a sentence. Occasionally it will spot an actual error in subject-verb agreement, though most of the time what it thinks is an error isn't. It also points out some homonyms and asks if you're sure you've got the right one.

rhadin · 08-01-2011, 06:23 PM

For editing, nothing beats the services of a professional editor; but using what Word offers is better than using absolutely nothing by at least a cat's whisker.

VydorScope · 08-01-2011, 11:53 PM

Yea, I do all my editing in Word 2011, leaning heavily on its Grammar and Spelling tools. Once I have it to where Word likes it, I had it off to a human to edit again. I find the tools help bridge the gap between my level of editing skill and my editors some so that she can at least tell what I was trying to write and have to ask less questions.

lmirelez · 08-03-2011, 09:44 AM

I am sooo new to the business and marketing aspect of "books". My book "Of Moments and Miracles" is my first book available in hard copy as well as an ebook. I have seen it as "free" or "on bargin" lists. Can someone please explain how all of this works?

jaxx6166 · 08-05-2011, 10:48 PM

The things people don't realize is that there are two distinctly different types of editing.

Content - Checks for plot holes, weaknesses in story, voice, etc.
Copyediting - Grammar and Spellcheck.

Both are equally important. Lack of a good copyedit sticks out like a fork in your eye. Lack of content editing can stick out even more. Especially when your character changes sex, race, hair, eye, etc. . . and that's not even getting into your massive black hole of plot that you goofed on because the arc was in your head but not on page.

I went through Golden Hills about a half dozen times, ran Grammarian, Scrivener, and Word spelling and grammar check.

After reading it six times, I passed it off to three more associates to look over.

They all missed two homonyms on the first chapter and the fact that my protag's horse suddenly grew male genitalia.

In Beyond the Black, I swore up and down that it was a complete story. My editor found three dropped scenes, and even two scenes where all I wrote was "This is Lag's epic battle scene. 2,500 words."

I've seen a lot of people recently who only want a grammar/spellcheck and neglect the bones of the story.

I think they're equally important.

Lazybones · 08-07-2011, 07:36 PM

I agree that having other eyes looking at your work is essential. I've read some of my works three or four times through and I still find minor mistakes every now and again.

When I used to teach, I saw many, many students who assumed that because a passage made it through spell-check, it did not have errors. This led to some humorous situations where a word that was entirely inappropriate but spelled correctly turned up in a sentence (my favorite was the feudal lords who oppressed the pheasants).

Tome Keeper · 08-07-2011, 08:04 PM

No software is a substitute for another human.

I agree with Lazybones, many of my students do not realise that Word is not magic and can get it wrong.

VydorScope · 08-07-2011, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tome Keeper

No software is a substitute for another human.

I agree with Lazybones, many of my students do not realise that Word is not magic and can get it wrong.

When I handed my last story (The Academy) to my editor I had gone through it a zillion and a half times. There was NOTHING wrong with it. Nothing was underlined in any color (unless I disagreed with Word on it, which any good editor will do from time to time). The manuscript was PERFECT I tell you, PERFECT!

Then my editor started working on it... and changed something in just about every single sentence. Mistakes that I could only see AFTER she pointed them out. Why? Cause when you read your own work, you tend to read what you meant to right, not what you wrote.

khalleron · 08-07-2011, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by exscentric

Thanks for your comments, thought maybe there was a magic bullet :-) I have found Word a good start but as has been indicated it is lacking.

Unfortunately my last English was in the 9th grade and barely made it through that. College etc. failed to see the need for English for some reason.

I must admit I have learned a lot by reading the rules/laws in the Word checker, but still struggle to get things into something presentable.

Get yourself a copy of Strunk & White's 'The Elements of Style' and read it at least three times.

jaxx6166 · 08-07-2011, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalleron

Get yourself a copy of Strunk & White's 'The Elements of Style' and read it at least three times.

YES! YES! YES!! Yes times a million.

Best writing book..ever.

Definitely required reading.

07-31-2011, 07:49 PM	#1
exscentric Addict Posts: 379 Karma: 1033424 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: WY Device: Kindle keyboard	Speaking of editing... I've noted a couple of threads relating to editing and the desire of some to see more of it. Two items: 1. This is just an observation. I am coming to believe that there are problems in data transfer on computers/web. I have a number of items on my website and I have noticed many typo type errors as well as formatting problems. I have not decided whether it is in my uploading or in backup/copy procedures on my computer. I am in the process of revamping my files to take care of this. 2. What grammar/spell checking software do you find to be the best - if you find you need to use it. I used to use Word's and Word Perfect's but with the 2007 office I cannot get both to load onto my computer without great interaction between the two installs. Just curious if there is something out there that will make up for the failings of our great educational system - read that - inability to motivate me the first twelve years and the failure to correct the result in the last seven years

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07-31-2011, 08:07 PM	#2
OneandonlyDoc Fearless Writer Posts: 210 Karma: 375317 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: In a mitten! Device: Kobo Wifi	I avoid using any GRAMMAR check system (since nothing's a very good substitute for a human with a decent high school education (ie, paid attention in English and language classes to learn some grammar) who can reason through a situation...but for spelling, I check as I go against Word's built-in dictionary. Autocorrect is NOT turned on, however.

07-31-2011, 08:59 PM	#3
Native Cozy Bumpkin Stories Posts: 66 Karma: 351904 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Sprague River, Oregon Device: none	On # 1 point, make sure you use a standard font to upload to websites and such; otherwise the punctuation may get lost in the shuffle. Did with me anyway. For # 2 point, all I've ever used is Works and Word, and both are smarter spellers than me. For grammar - well, refer to # 1 point; computers don't talk in interesting fonts anyhow.

08-01-2011, 03:02 PM	#4
William F Pirosopher Posts: 55 Karma: 166972 Join Date: Jul 2011 Device: kindle, pc	Unfortunately technology is just not at the point where it can adequately proofread. It's good for a first pass to catch the major spelling issues but the old human brain is still the best software available. That, an Unabridged Dictionary and the old manual of style. I'd never ever turn on the grammar checker even though I got a D in grammar because I sat behind Lisa... Well anyway grammar checkers are awful. And sadly Wordperfect is done for. As an independant author if you use anything other than Word you are just making your job that much harder.

08-01-2011, 05:38 PM	#5
exscentric Addict Posts: 379 Karma: 1033424 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: WY Device: Kindle keyboard	Thanks for your comments, thought maybe there was a magic bullet :-) I have found Word a good start but as has been indicated it is lacking. Unfortunately my last English was in the 9th grade and barely made it through that. College etc. failed to see the need for English for some reason. I must admit I have learned a lot by reading the rules/laws in the Word checker, but still struggle to get things into something presentable.

08-01-2011, 05:58 PM	#6
Catlady Grand Sorcerer Posts: 7,407 Karma: 52613881 Join Date: Oct 2010 Device: Kindle Fire, Kindle Paperwhite, AGPTek Bluetooth Clip	I edit using Word. I use both the spellcheck and the grammar check, but only as a backup to find egregious mistakes. I verify each change. What grammar check is useful for is finding things like a missing close quotation mark or a missing period at the end of a sentence. Occasionally it will spot an actual error in subject-verb agreement, though most of the time what it thinks is an error isn't. It also points out some homonyms and asks if you're sure you've got the right one.

08-01-2011, 06:23 PM	#7
rhadin Literacy = Understanding Posts: 4,833 Karma: 59674358 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: The World of Books Device: Nook, Nook Tablet	For editing, nothing beats the services of a professional editor; but using what Word offers is better than using absolutely nothing by at least a cat's whisker.

08-01-2011, 11:53 PM	#8
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	Yea, I do all my editing in Word 2011, leaning heavily on its Grammar and Spelling tools. Once I have it to where Word likes it, I had it off to a human to edit again. I find the tools help bridge the gap between my level of editing skill and my editors some so that she can at least tell what I was trying to write and have to ask less questions.

08-03-2011, 09:44 AM	#9
lmirelez Junior Member Posts: 1 Karma: 10 Join Date: Aug 2011 Device: none	I am sooo new to the business and marketing aspect of "books". My book "Of Moments and Miracles" is my first book available in hard copy as well as an ebook. I have seen it as "free" or "on bargin" lists. Can someone please explain how all of this works?

08-05-2011, 10:48 PM	#10
jaxx6166 Wizard Posts: 1,222 Karma: 769316 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eternal summer Device: 350, iPad, PW	The things people don't realize is that there are two distinctly different types of editing. Content - Checks for plot holes, weaknesses in story, voice, etc. Copyediting - Grammar and Spellcheck. Both are equally important. Lack of a good copyedit sticks out like a fork in your eye. Lack of content editing can stick out even more. Especially when your character changes sex, race, hair, eye, etc. . . and that's not even getting into your massive black hole of plot that you goofed on because the arc was in your head but not on page. I went through Golden Hills about a half dozen times, ran Grammarian, Scrivener, and Word spelling and grammar check. After reading it six times, I passed it off to three more associates to look over. They all missed two homonyms on the first chapter and the fact that my protag's horse suddenly grew male genitalia. In Beyond the Black, I swore up and down that it was a complete story. My editor found three dropped scenes, and even two scenes where all I wrote was "This is Lag's epic battle scene. 2,500 words." I've seen a lot of people recently who only want a grammar/spellcheck and neglect the bones of the story. I think they're equally important.

08-07-2011, 07:36 PM	#11
Lazybones Groupie Posts: 162 Karma: 1719250 Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Sacramento Device: Kindle	I agree that having other eyes looking at your work is essential. I've read some of my works three or four times through and I still find minor mistakes every now and again. When I used to teach, I saw many, many students who assumed that because a passage made it through spell-check, it did not have errors. This led to some humorous situations where a word that was entirely inappropriate but spelled correctly turned up in a sentence (my favorite was the feudal lords who oppressed the pheasants).

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08-07-2011, 08:04 PM	#12
Tome Keeper Addict Posts: 355 Karma: 1001201 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: UK Device: Kindle 3 Keyboard, Surface Tablet, Android Smartphone, Laptop, Netbook	No software is a substitute for another human. I agree with Lazybones, many of my students do not realise that Word is not magic and can get it wrong.