Consumer Reports: Nook Beats The Kindle

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by Lizzie in Ma

I thought I would love touch navigation but I really didn't, too imprecise. I love the keyboard. LOVE it. . . . Aldiko is my, bar none, favorite interface but I dislike reading for any length of time on the lcd screen and it kills my battery.

Point 1: My ideal reader would be an eInk slider with 12X faster refreshes, a touch screen and a full QUERTY keyboard like that of my Epic (your Vibrant's sister). Then notes could be typed outside the eInk echo chamber and the benefits of a touchscreen would be there if I needed them.

Point 2: It sounds as if your ideal reader would have an eInk [touch]screen and keyboard, run on Android and either be rooted or allow you to launch Aldiko stock. I wouldn't be surprised if Amazon created that option (though you might have to root it for Alidiko).

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Or someone who is busy working during the day, and does their majority of reading in bed at night? I have exactly the same view, I prefer a backlit reader because I do almost all my reading in low or no light. Why is that so funny?

That excerpt doesn't make it clear enough, but he was actually bashing the one feature of e-ink that make it stand out among fans in favor of backlit lcd screens. At least, that's what I figured.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

That's wrong, and if you think about it for a couple of seconds, you will even understand why.

Figured it out yet?

If not, then this is how it goes: if you have a PC, and haven't installed office on it, you can't read doc files. It is the same way that you need software for pdf files, epub files, mobi files, djvu files, mp3 files, avi files, you know, ALL files.

But I am curios to know which piece of hardware you think is missing from the nook, sony, etc, that keeps them from reading mobi files.

I said that because on PCs or computers we have the ability to reinstall or change the operating system but on eink devices that's not so easy, not for the regular user. And doing it, voids the warranty anyway. Not the same on a PC. So you buy an eink device and you basically have to use and accept the format it natively reads .

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

That excerpt doesn't make it clear enough, but he was actually bashing the one feature of e-ink that make it stand out among fans in favor of backlit lcd screens. At least, that's what I figured.

Your response wasn't exactly a reasoned discussion was it?

You can see it is a very geeky point of view, the view of one who doesn't really care going out in daylight and gets the best part of his day hacking away in his computer in his dark basement...

[Namekuseijin]

I'm humorously bashing a guy bashing e-ink in favor of lcd -- and I'm not even an e-ink lover! What's wrong with people's sense of humor? Are you really bedtime literate people or indeed geeks in disguise?

[Crowl]

Originally Posted by SleepyBob

B&N can't force all other e-reader companies to upgrade their software to read B&N DRM'd books any more than they can force them to support PDF files. But the fact that they can choose to (and that they are starting to) is a HUGE difference, IMO. You may not decide that it affects you and you don't care about Amazon's lock-in, but I don't see how anyone can pretend that the two positions are equivalent.

Regardless of there being an increase in support for the B&N drm on epub, it is so annoying that them and then Apple went with non-standard drm for epub when a unified front when it came to drm would have been much better when trying to compete with the dominance of kindle in the ebook marketplace.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by Crowl

Regardless of there being an increase in support for the B&N drm on epub, it is so annoying that them and then Apple went with non-standard drm for epub when a unified front when it came to drm would have been much better when trying to compete with the dominance of kindle in the ebook marketplace.

If you are a major player who already have their own DRM scheme in place, you are unlikely to choose to pay money to Adobe to do something you can do for yourself for free, and tie your service to someone else's servers.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by jocampo

I said that because on PCs or computers we have the ability to reinstall or change the operating system but on eink devices that's not so easy, not for the regular user. And doing it, voids the warranty anyway. Not the same on a PC. So you buy an eink device and you basically have to use and accept the format it natively reads .

You said:

Originally Posted by jocampo

The ability to open an ebook format depends of the hardware.

because you can't change the operating system on e-ink devices? Are you talking about rooting a device? Do you think that the OS is hardware?

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

You said:

because you can't change the operating system on e-ink devices? Are you talking about rooting a device? Do you think that the OS is hardware?

I know exactly the difference between Os and Hardware.

And I know what I said. The true is that on eink devices, you cannot read a different ebook format without hacking the device. I extrapolated that to the "hardware" word because when you buy the device, you buy thinking about a hardware: Nook, Kindle, Kobo, etc. You don't buy thinking about what software is really working and acting as interface to let you read your books.

So again, the format you can actually read on a eink device is tied up to the hardware or device's name: Nook with ePub, Kindle 3 with mobi, Sony with ePub (old DRM implementation), etc. Notice I am talking about out of the box eink devices, not tablets.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by jocampo

And I know what I said. The true is that on eink devices, you cannot read a different ebook format without hacking the device. I extrapolated that to the "hardware" word because when you buy the device, you buy thinking about a hardware: Nook, Kindle, Kobo, etc. You don't buy thinking about what software is really working and acting as interface to let you read your books.

I said: The ability to open DRM'd files is in the software.
You replied:

Originally Posted by jocampo

Why is so difficult to understand for some ...

The ability to open an ebook format depends of the hardware.

Originally Posted by jocampo

So again, the format you can actually read on a eink device is tied up to the hardware or device's name: Nook with ePub, Kindle 3 with mobi, Sony with ePub (old DRM implementation), etc. Notice I am talking about out of the box eink devices, not tablets.

From the wiki, supported ebook formats of some ereaders:
eGriver eReaders: PDF, EPUB, TXT,CHM, FB2, PRC/MOBI, HTML, DJVU

HanLin eBook V3+: PDF, EPUB, TXT, RTF, LIT, PPT, WOLF, DOC, CHM, FB2, PRC/MOBI, HTML, DJVU

Sony Touch Edition PRS-650: PDF, EPUB, TXT, RTF

Kindle : Kindle (AZW), PRC/MOBI (non DRM), PDF, PDF (non DRM), HTML, DOC, TXT

Kobo eReader Touch: PDF, EPUB, MOBI, TXT, HTML, RTF

NOOK Simple Touch Reader: PDF, EPUB



The one that I chose to buy (Pocketbook 903) supports: FB2, TXT, PDF, DJVU, RTF, HTML, PRC, CHM, EPUB, DOC.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

I said: The ability to open DRM'd files is in the software.
You replied:




From the wiki, supported ebook formats of some ereaders:
eGriver eReaders: PDF, EPUB, TXT,CHM, FB2, PRC/MOBI, HTML, DJVU

HanLin eBook V3+: PDF, EPUB, TXT, RTF, LIT, PPT, WOLF, DOC, CHM, FB2, PRC/MOBI, HTML, DJVU

Sony Touch Edition PRS-650: PDF, EPUB, TXT, RTF

Kindle : Kindle (AZW), PRC/MOBI (non DRM), PDF, PDF (non DRM), HTML, DOC, TXT

Kobo eReader Touch: PDF, EPUB, MOBI, TXT, HTML, RTF

NOOK Simple Touch Reader: PDF, EPUB



The one that I chose to buy (Pocketbook 903) supports: FB2, TXT, PDF, DJVU, RTF, HTML, PRC, CHM, EPUB, DOC.

Honestly, what's your point.

The software layer is the part that provides the abstraction layer and allows the user to read the ebook, via hardware or reader.

I did not mentioned TXT, HTML, RTF, because majority of online bookstores use ePub or mobi. At least, those are the most common when you buy from B&N, Sony or Amazon.

Glad that you like your Pocketbook, but I don't think that's topic of the thread. And in terms of customer support, overall quality, online bookstore experience, I would not compare the Pocketbook side by side with a Sony, Nook or even Kindle.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

so, I assume the best option is to have a multipurpose device where you can simply download or pay for the required software and be done with it? Like my smartphone, where I have ePub readers, a Kindle app, a Nook app etc?

I think it's a toss-up. Yes, a multipurpose device (i.e., a smartphone or tablet) will let you simply download the appropriate apps and read whatever you want. However, I don't know of any multipurpose devices that are also e-ink, and I think e-ink makes for a more pleasurable reading experience. (Your mileage, obviously, will vary.) For someone with the money to do it, and who doesn't care about e-ink, a capable tablet is probably a better investment. But there are things you give up with either option.

[FerretMochaLatte]

I registered for these forums just because of this thread haha. I was looking up comparisons of the Kindle to the Nook and I stumbled upon this.

So, what up! Allow me to weigh in my opinions.

File Formats
I see that a lot of people are supporting the Nook, because of the ePub file format and the notion that you are not locked into the Nook. This is half true as yes you are not locked into the Nook because it supports non-DRM ePub books, but the majority of books you are going to purchase on the Nook are going to be from the Nook’s market, which are DRM protected ebooks. They do have an advantage with Google Books seeing as Google Books only allows users to upload ePub or PDF files. They also have an advantage with ebook vendors outside of the Nook store itself. Feedbooks, which is one of the largest vendors outside of the Nook and Kindle stores, sells exclusive ePub books. They are DRM protected, but I think they can still be read on the Nook.

The fact that Google Books allows PDFs might make Kindle fans happy, but you cannot change the fonts of PDFs. This is a big issue to me. One of the reasons why I bought an ereader is because the font in some of the books that I purchased or read were too small for my tastes. Having the option to increase the font size was a big plus to me, that and your own annotations and space-saving purposes.

It all comes down to digital rights management. Nook fans state that you can buy from other stores, but most stores that I know of that offer DRM free books have their books available in both Mobipocket and ePub. (Check out feedbooks. It is amazing.) It would be nice to see ereaders accept the DRM Free Fictionbook file format, but that may be asking for too much.

One of my favorite authors is Cory Doctorow and he is an anti-DRM activist. All of his books are copyrighted by the Creative Commons license under the public domain. He releases the electronic versions of his books online in either basic text or ePub, I forget. Since his books are licensed under CC, vendors such as Feedbooks or general people take the format and convert it to other formats.

The Kindle
The Kindle came out in 2007 which gave it a 2 year advantage over the Nook. (Technically it was almost 3 because of the delay in shipments of the first version of the Nook.) The Kindle already established dominance in the ereader and ebook market. The Nook came in at the end of 2009.

What I love/hate about the Kindle is that they kept the same design and improved upon it. I was surprised when I saw the design of the Kindle 3, given that I believed that Amazon should have known the direction that B&N was heading when they released the first Nook.

The Kindle sold to its customer based on the slim profile of the device and the battery life that blew the Nook’s 10-hour battery life out of the water.

The Kindle also one-upped the Nook by allowing MP3 files to be played which allows you to load audiobooks to your Kindle. I have a few gripes with this though. The Kindle has limited memory and audiobooks are not small. Sun Tzu’s The Art of War is around 40 mb. That book is a small book. A Game of Thrones is close to 200 MB, maybe even more. As for being handicapped accessible, how do you expect a blind person to use a Kindle? Why not have it on their phone with speaker functions for the handicapped or in braille CDs that they can put into CD players?

The Nook
The Nook had an OK startup in my opinion. The thing that hurt them was their delayed release and the operating speed of the ereader itself. The Kindle 2 was snappy at that time, but the Nook was subject to constant freezing problems. I bought the first Nook a few months after it came out. From my experience, I had issues with the freezing OS, the freezing sleep mode, and the poor response of the touchscreen. You can look on the Nook forums at B&N and find that the issues I had were common issues. I traded it in and waited for the Kindle 3.

Although I have a Kindle, I admire the overall approach that B&N is taking towards their ereader. They went with the touch screen approach. I believe this is the right direction because it engages readers as if they were reading a normal book and with the new tablet frenzy, I do not see why they would choose not to go with touchscreens.
The Nook came out after the Kindle, and you have to admit that Amazon is playing a little catch up. B&N has the Nook color which has sold well and now they have the Nook Simple Touch. Amazon would be dumb not to adopt what B&N has already done or else they will fall behind. Amazon is going to release a touchscreen ereader and then they are going to release an ereader tablet similar to the Nook. Once, that happens I will probably jump ship. It is getting kind of ridiculous in my opinion. What started out as another form of reading, be it improved or not, has exploded into this all-out war on features and what not.

Going back to the Nook, it is nice to be able to browse and read within B&N stores, even though I think most booksellers will be closing up shop within the next 5 to 10 years given the explosive rate of ebook sales. They were also one of the first to allow book lending, although limited, and library borrowing. They also support the more widely used ePub file format which I talked about.

Appealing to the casual consumer
The main purpose of an ereader is to sell ebooks and to make the whole experience feel more like reading an actual book. I see that a lot of posters here state that people can use programs such as Calibre to convert non-DRM books or to manage your books, but it defeats the purpose of synchronization and it is a step backwards in what these devices are intended to do. Manually syncing and managing your own music is a tedious task to do. The casual consumer does not want to go through all the work of saving their purchases on different files or managing it via Sugarsync or Dropbox. They want to have one service that backs it up and syncs it for them. They want they book distributor to manage their content for them.

It is not a big issue to most people here, but it is an issue for the casual consumer.

Touch vs. Keyboard
This is a simple matter of preference. I for one love touch screens. I used to have a Blackberry Curve a while ago and I bought an iPod Touch for my birthday when I had the phone. I used my iPod ten times more than I did my curve. I even used my iPod for texting. I grew accustomed to touch screen devices and I have been using one ever since.

The market is also leaning towards touchscreens. With the tablet market booming, it is only a matter of time where you will see buttons and physical keyboards become even rarer than they are now on mobile devices, tablets, and handheld electronics. Apple is dominant in these fields and their products are touchscreen based.

Library Lending
I think what people are missing here is the market takeover potential that the Kindle will have once it releases the patch that allows you to borrow books from libraries. Most library file formats are in ePub. Either Amazon is working on some contract with publishers to have their ebooks that are lent out to libraries to be available in the Mobipocket file format, or Amazon is working on a ePub to Mobipocket file converter, or Amazon is going to adopt the ePub file format to their platform. This should be interesting either way.


Well that’s my long two cents. It looks more like bus fare haha.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by jocampo

Honestly, what's your point.

You link the device to the book store, and to the file format that the store uses. That kind of link is the lock in that everybody talks about. But not all devices are locked in, or to phrase it better, not all devices are locked out of other book stores. It doesn't matter to me that the bookstore attached to Pocketbook isn't any good, because I can get books from other stores. But this is just an example to explain that not all devices are locked in (or out), and I felt the need to give it because you weren't getting the point from just talking about the kindle and the nook.

So here's my point: when it comes to comparing the kindle and the nook in respect to the availability of books, you should compare the Amazon bookstore not only to the B&N store, but to the B&N store + most other stores that sell epub. Because the nook isn't locked in to the B&N store.

[ST-One]

Originally Posted by FerretMochaLatte

I see that a lot of people are supporting the Nook, because of the ePub file format and the notion that you are not locked into the Nook. This is half true as yes you are not locked into the Nook because it supports non-DRM ePub books, but the majority of books you are going to purchase on the Nook are going to be from the Nook’s market, which are DRM protected ebooks.

Tell me, who locks you more in?

• the company that uses a DRM-scheme it is not willing to license to other companies that have put ebook-readers on the market (Amazon)

or

• the company that uses a DRM-scheme it is willing to license to other companies that have put ebook-readers on the market (Barnes & Noble)

That's right: Amazon.

B&N offers the key to everyone who is willing to take it; Amazon doesn't.