There's a better way to beat the ebook pirates

[Penforhire]

Nobody has a right to "earn a living" at anything, even manual labor, outside of a socialist system. But it has to be true that creators have a right to be compensated for consumption/viewing of their creations, if they make that a condition of consumption/viewing. That doesn't mean they'll make a living at it but it does mean they should not be robbed by any downloader who just doesn't want to pay.

Seems to me that is a clear line in the sand that you either cross or not.

[twowheels]

I have a question about a particular book. I'm curious how the staunch anti-piracy folks feel about this... I'm not planning to download it, I've already read it on paper, but it's an interesting thought experiment.

The book "Letters from Earth" was an unfinished work, written by Mark Twain, who died 101 years ago. Because of its content, his daughter (who inherited the rights to his writings) objected to having it published. She finally changed her mind shortly before her death and it was finally published AFTER she died. So, now... the author is dead and his heir is dead, yet because it was published for the first time so late it's still under copyright.

IMO this isn't as black and white as some make copyright issues out to be...

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Don't want to. We need trees more than we need paper.

Several important things come on paper. One is books. One is money. Like it or not, when your books exist on paper, people see that as a sign of quality, and they'll be more likely to give you money. Also, when your books exist on paper, people see them, period. They then give you money. More people buy pbooks than ebooks. More people visit Barnes & Noble than MobileRead. Paper equals paper.

If you choose to publish only electronically for philosophical reasons, that's entirely your choice, but you can't then complain that your sales don't equal the sales of people who made a different (and more profitable) choice. Apples and oranges.

And sorry about raining on your parade, but the numbers don't lie. Making a living as a writer not only is, but always has been, damned tough. Making a living as a genre writer (unless it's a current hugely-popular genre) is, and always has been, even tougher.

Writing is not a good way to make a living. Remember that William Faulkner didn't (re)write Hollywood scripts because he liked it; he did that because he liked eating. Writing because you love to write is a good thing, and if you're lucky, you might make a living at it. Writing because you want to make a living is a non-starter, because very, very few writers ever do. Dreams are a good thing ... but being a plumber is a more reliable route to success.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Writing is not a good way to make a living. Remember that William Faulkner didn't (re)write Hollywood scripts because he liked it; he did that because he liked eating. Writing because you love to write is a good thing, and if you're lucky, you might make a living at it. Writing because you want to make a living is a non-starter, because very, very few writers ever do. Dreams are a good thing ... but being a plumber is a more reliable route to success.

As your Faulkner reference suggests, I think the issue is "writing the literature you want to write" is what's hard to make a living at.

If one happens to have the talent and develops the craft of writing, it's probably not that much harder to get a job 'writing'...instruction manuals, ad copy, speeches, newspaper obits, etc...than it is to be a successful plumber. Plus, you don't have to spend as much time with your hands in dirty water.

"Writing" for a living is pretty much a matter of talent, craftsmanship, and effort. "Writing the books you really want to write" is the thing that's more like a bolt of lighting from a benevolent god.

Sort like the film industry. It's pretty easy to make a living in 'the industry' if you're willing to work at a craft and go where the work is. Becoming an A-list star or director, though....that's a bit different.

ApK
"What? And give up show business?"

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

Nobody has a right to "earn a living" at anything, even manual labor, outside of a socialist system. But it has to be true that creators have a right to be compensated for consumption/viewing of their creations, if they make that a condition of consumption/viewing. That doesn't mean they'll make a living at it but it does mean they should not be robbed by any downloader who just doesn't want to pay.

Exactly. Very few writers make a living writing creatively. (People make decent livings as things like technical writers.) But the fact that you can, at best, only hope that it supplements your income doesn't mean that someone else has the right to come along and take for free what you've set a price for. All it means is that they don't have to buy it from you.

[dippybird]

what i cant understand is that every single book printed is on a computer somewhere ready to be sent to printers to print onto paper, so why oh why cant i get the 6 william horwood duncton books in pdf format id happily pay proper price, but can someone tell me whyit costs more to buy a pdf book legally than a paper book the pdf can be put on a disc that costs pence takes seconds then posted, a paper book has to be printed on paper bound crated send to distribution warehouse sent to store then finally sold, am i missing something here

[Sydney's Mom]

Originally Posted by dippybird

what i cant understand is that every single book printed is on a computer somewhere ready to be sent to printers to print onto paper, so why oh why cant i get the 6 william horwood duncton books in pdf format id happily pay proper price, but can someone tell me whyit costs more to buy a pdf book legally than a paper book the pdf can be put on a disc that costs pence takes seconds then posted, a paper book has to be printed on paper bound crated send to distribution warehouse sent to store then finally sold, am i missing something here

This is a thread discussing the problem of pirating-there are plenty of threads complaining about the availability and price of ebooks-pirating is never the answer.

[elcreative]

Yes is the short answer... but I'd love to know where the mythic collections of "every" ebook are on computers "somewhere" considering that only books that have been printed since DTP were produced on computer, everything else was produced with printing plates (which tended to wear out or be melted down depending on methodology) and hasn't been magically put on computers yet. Even if a book was produced via computer, in the early days, the value of maintaining the files was not so obvious considering the then costs of storage.

And secondly, what Sydney's Mom says... price elsewhere, piracy here

Originally Posted by dippybird

what i cant understand is that every single book printed is on a computer somewhere ready to be sent to printers to print onto paper, so why oh why cant i get the 6 william horwood duncton books in pdf format id happily pay proper price, but can someone tell me whyit costs more to buy a pdf book legally than a paper book the pdf can be put on a disc that costs pence takes seconds then posted, a paper book has to be printed on paper bound crated send to distribution warehouse sent to store then finally sold, am i missing something here

[NVash]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Writing is not a good way to make a living. Remember that William Faulkner didn't (re)write Hollywood scripts because he liked it; he did that because he liked eating. Writing because you love to write is a good thing, and if you're lucky, you might make a living at it. Writing because you want to make a living is a non-starter, because very, very few writers ever do. Dreams are a good thing ... but being a plumber is a more reliable route to success.

I may be wrong but didnt Arthur Conan Doyle hate writing and only do it to pay the bills as well?

[covingtoncat73]

Originally Posted by NVash

I may be wrong but didnt Arthur Conan Doyle hate writing and only do it to pay the bills as well?

I think I remember reading somewhere that he hated writing Sherlock Holmes and wanted to write some very different kind of books. I want to say they were proto-sci-fi but I never read them and don't remember exactly. Anyway, he kept writing Sherlock to pay the bills.

[Worldwalker]

Apk, good point about the technical manuals and other non-literary writing. I've certainly been paid considerably more for my "boring" writing than anything I found fun.

NV, he hated Sherlock Holmes. He wanted to write, and be remembered for, "serious" books (I believe about spiritualism) and his readers wanted more Holmes. That's why he tried to kill off Holmes ... and his readers, and more importantly his creditors, would not let him.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by ApK

As your Faulkner reference suggests, I think the issue is "writing the literature you want to write" is what's hard to make a living at.

If one happens to have the talent and develops the craft of writing, it's probably not that much harder to get a job 'writing'...instruction manuals, ad copy, speeches, newspaper obits, etc...than it is to be a successful plumber. Plus, you don't have to spend as much time with your hands in dirty water.

"Writing" for a living is pretty much a matter of talent, craftsmanship, and effort. "Writing the books you really want to write" is the thing that's more like a bolt of lighting from a benevolent god.

Sort like the film industry. It's pretty easy to make a living in 'the industry' if you're willing to work at a craft and go where the work is. Becoming an A-list star or director, though....that's a bit different.

ApK
"What? And give up show business?"

Yes. Great point.

[Sydney's Mom]

Life isn't fair. Some activities are valued (paid) more than others.

A writer cannot make a decision to become the next Stephen King, but it would seem marketing would be a road to getting there that you could control.

I love to knit. But when I looked at the way people are compensated for that activity, I decided to use it for charity. It is an enormous amount of effort, for very little compensation.

When people get angry because life is unfair, often it is because they are looking for someone to blame. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

[NVash]

Thanks for that information covingtoncat73 and WW! I was pretty sure it was something like that, thanks for clearing it up.

[GreenMonkey]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

You sure have a way in instilling confidence in a guy, you know that?...

There are a few of the marketing attempts mentioned elsewhere that I haven't tried... usually because too much money was involved (hey, sorry, I got bills). Most of them have been tried, and garnered little or no sales. I'll look at this fresh list, to see if there's anything else I can try.



I think "how you see" my statements is a bit... skewed. At least that's how I see it.

Edit: I think we can conclude this sub-thread here. I've had mention of some marketing things I can try, a number I've already tried, and enough criticism and statements of the obvious to encourage me to pick up some fresh razor blades from the market. We'll see where things go from here.

That's the spirit, buddy!