Treo 700p vs 650: some projected differences

[Bob Russell]

There is a very nice list from 1src of the expected differences (other than the main specs we have covered before) between the new Sprint 700p and the existing Treo 650 device. Both are PalmOS, but there are some pretty impressive improvements according to this list in the form factor and functionality, above and beyond the obvious camera resolution and EV-DO high speed data access.

Bear in mind that this is reported to be a rumor as it is sent in from an anonymous source. But, specifically, when the product is announced/released we might be seeing: "

1) Web browsing via EV-DO is like going from dialup to broadband. This is worth the price of admission right there.
2) 62 MB internal RAM
3) Comes with a bunch of nice apps - ptunes 3.06 is one
4) You already know about the bigger keys and much more functional 5-way button thingie. Considerably easier to use, I'd say.
5) Battery life is supposed to be improved. (as if that ever was an issue).
6) Sound quality seems better and louder without VolumeCare
7) Much faster display due to faster CPU - has a noticeably peppier feel.
8) Camcorder and Camera much nicer - improved resloution
9) Camera optics are a little smaller (take up a little less real estate on the back)
10) Beaming opening is about 50% smaller
11) Side switches are flat, not curved. I like them.
12) Speaker grill is bigger (square) instead of roundish
13) No software compatibility issues encountered in testing
14) Very stable. Currently in 8th firmware rev
15) Power cycling (removing/replacing battery) remembers previous operational state - if phone was on, it will turn on automatically.
16) Time syncs with (more accurate) time server, rather than network - I noticed about a 20 second difference between my phone and the 700
...
I should add that the signal strength indicator has six little bars instead of the current four. The engineer said that the 700 uses a different chip for signal reception, which is more sensitive than the 650."

I'm on the edge of my seat and unless I see an unexpected shortcoming with the new Sprint 700p, I hope to grab one this month myself!

[Bob Russell]

I'm wondering a bit about the processor... the 700p is supposed to be zippier.

But the Treo 650 has the "Intel PXA270 'Bulverde' processor running at 312MHz" and the 700p is <pdf> supposed to have a "312MHz Intel XScale processor." One would think from the numbers that the 700p would be slower. But they seem to be different processor families, and clock speed isn't everything.

Anyone know how these two compare in general?

[Chaos]

A PXA270 processor is an Xscale processor. Whomever wrote that list you posted is either wrong, or the PDF is wrong. Or it's 'zippier' for a reason other than the processor.

[derekweb]

Originally Posted by Chaos

A PXA270 processor is an Xscale processor. Whomever wrote that list you posted is either wrong, or the PDF is wrong. Or it's 'zippier' for a reason other than the processor.

I have to agree with Chaos. I'm under the understanding the XScale process is the same as the Bulverde processor of which you speak. Personally, the XScale processor line is pretty good. If the OS was written to take advantage of it's power step capability, it would say something about the improvements on this phone.

One question: SD Card or MiniSD Card on this phone?

[Bob Russell]

Hmm...
http://www.intel.com/design/pca/appl...7x_faq.htm#new

The Intel® PXA27x family processor includes the Intel® PXA270, PXA271, and PXA272 processors.

Designed from the ground-up for wireless clients and incorporating the latest Intel mobile technologies, the Intel® PXA27x processor family redefines what a wireless handheld can do. Intel PXA27x processors are the first Intel XScale® technology-based processors to include Intel® Wireless MMX™ technology for high-performance media acceleration. Intel® Quick Capture technology provides one of the industry's most flexible and powerful camera interfaces for digital images and video. And while processor performance scales from 104 MHz up to a commanding 624 MHz, power consumption is also critical. Wireless Intel SpeedStep® technology is a quantum leap forward in low-power operation. Finally, the Intel PXA27x processor is designed to make network transactions safer while helping to manage data security.

Intel® PXA270 processor: 312/416/520/624 MHz applications processor, standalone discrete solution, 32 bit processor with 32 bit external memory bus

Intel® PXA271 processor: 312/416 MHz applications processor stacked with a 256Mb Intel StrataFlash® Wireless Memory and a 256 Mb Low Power SDRAM — 32 bit processor with 16 bit internal and 32 bit external memory bus

Intel® PXA272 processor: 312/416/520 MHz applications processor, with 2 pc 256 Mb of Intel StrataFlash® Wireless Memory — 32 bit processor with 32 bit internal and external memory bus

Some info from Wikipedia

PXA27x

The PXA27x family (code-named Bulverde) consists of the PXA270 and PXA271-PXA272 processors. This revision is a huge update to the XScale family of processors. The PXA270 is clocked in four different speeds: 312 MHz, 416 MHz, 520 MHz and 624 MHz and is a stand-alone processor with no packaged memory. The PXA271 can be clocked to 312 MHz or 416 MHz and has 32 MiB of 16-bit stacked StrataFlash memory and 32 MiB of 16-bit SDRAM in the same package. The PXA272 can be clocked to 312 MHz, 416 MHz or 520 MHz and has 64 MiB of 32-bit stacked StrataFlash memory.

Intel also added many new technologies to the PXA27x family such as:

* Wireless SpeedStep: the operating system can clock the processor down based on load to save power.
* Wireless MMX: 43 new SIMD instructions containing the full MMX instruction set and the integer instructions from Intel's SSE instruction set along with some instructions unique to the XScale. Wireless MMX provides 16 extra 64-bit registers that can be treated as an array of two 32-bit words, four 16-bit halfwords or eight 8-bit bytes. The XScale core can then perform up to eight adds or four MACs in parallel in a single cycle. This capability is used to boost speed in decoding and encoding of multimedia and in playing games.
* Additional peripherals, such as an USB-Host interface and a camera interface.
* Internal 256 KiB SRAM to reduce power consumption and latency.

The PXA27x family was released in April 2004. Along with the PXA27x family Intel released the 2700G embedded graphics co-processor.

In August 2005 Intel announced the successor to Bulverde code named Monahans. They demoed it showing its capability to play back high definition encoded video on a PDA screen. The new processor was shown clocked at 1.25 GHz but Intel said it only offered a 25% increase in performance (800 MIPS for the 624 MHz PXA270 processor vs 1000 MIPS for 1.25 GHz Monahans). An announced successor to the 2700G graphics processor, code named Stanwood, has since been cancelled. Some of the features of Stanwood are integrated into Monahans. For extra graphics capabilities, Intel recommends third party chips like the Nvidia GoForce chip family.

Note: The article is under review primarily because of credit for the chips, but note that there is someone that has also questioned completeness. However the family description seems complete based on what I saw on the Intel page. According to this site from April 2004, there is another one, the PXA273.

Today Intel announced the PXA270, PXA271, PXA272, and PXA273—the latest members of its PXA2xx family of application processors.

And did you notice that there seems to be support for USB hosting! How great would that be to have your pda as a usb host, even for external usb storage if nothing else!

So it does seem like they are in the same family, but the 700p might be upgraded to use the PXA271 or PXA272 even at the same clock speed, and could provide zippier results. I didn't go so far as to compare all the features to try to see what other features might help if the processor is an upgrade, but at least it seems feasible to get an improvement and still stay in the PXA27x processor family.

Aha!!!!... this article showing the Treo 700w uses a "Intel XScale PXA 272 312 MHz processor" would seem to be confirmation of the upgrade coming for the 700p. People may just not notice the zippiness on the 700w with the Win Mobile overhead, and no previous Treo to compare with.

[hacker]

Unfortunately for a good section of people in the Northeast US, Cingular is the big player here. For me, my 650 works great on the Cingular network.. but the 700p has some features I could definitely use (more ram, better camera).

I just called Palm and spoke with "Megan" there, and she said that the 700p is not compatible with anything but Sprint and Verizon (CDMA only), and that the physical phone can't accept a SIM card. I've verified this by checking the local Treo in the store, and it doesn't even have a slot like the 650 does.

So I guess I wait for a Treo on Cingular, or go with a SLVR and give up my Palm smartphone for good. The SLVR + my T3 seems like the best option so far.

[RawFoodGuy]

Originally Posted by Bob Russell

1) Web browsing via EV-DO is like going from dialup to broadband. This is worth the price of admission right there.

Actually, I was considering buying the 700p until I found out today that to access EVDO on the 700p using it as a modem (at least on Sprint) costs $39.95 a month . So is this really "worth the price of admission after all?"

One reason I originally thought the 700p would be a good upgrade was that I could possibly get out of my separate EVDO card & contract and use the phone as a modem, but with additional charge it doesn't really make as much sense.

RawFoodGuy

[Gameboy70]

June Fabrics has just released a 700p version of PDANet, which allows you to connect your laptop to the Treo via BT or USB. It's $34 once instead of $39.95 a month (totally ridiculous on Sprint's part). I've been using the 650 version with no problems, and if I wind up getting the 700p, installing PDANet will be my first order of business.

[BCollia]

I just can't justify an extra $400 for faster internet connection amoung other things. I love my 650 to death and called to upgrade to a 700 until they told me the price. I do tend to think the connection can be slow at times, but for $400 I'll live with it. This 650 has changed my life. I am a smartphone owner for life now.

[Bob Russell]

I think the 650 is fine for a lot of people. It's a great device.