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Old 02-13-2017, 06:12 PM   #1
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How to Incorporate Pic Attribute for CC lic

Maybe I am in the wrong forum for this question, but I'm using Sigil for my how-to book and am at the stage where I am adding necessary pictures. Some are covered by the Creative Commons ShareAlike license and require an attribute, link to the work, disclaimer, etc.

On a webpage this would be simple enough but not sure how to go about it in an ebook. Would an internal link to a page following the Appendix that lists all this info for the picture, and includes an external link to the work be the correct way to approach this?

It seems a lot of info to put in the body of the book under the picture.

Guidance? A link to something I can read that would point me in the right direction? (Tried Googling but apparently I don't know how to word the query to get relevant hits.) TIA.

EDIT: I think I found what I needed but any input is welcome. I will leave this in case it helps others... here is the link I found to help.

EDIT#2: Well, it's not very helpful since the methods for attribution assume a webpage and not an ebook... but with some work...

Last edited by Trane; 02-13-2017 at 07:50 PM. Reason: Found more info
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:50 AM   #2
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I would create a page that references all pictures with the required attributes/links to works/disclaimers/etc and place that page at the end.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:23 PM   #3
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^^^^ +1
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:17 PM   #4
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Thanks Toxaris and Turtle91. That would be the elegant solution but I doubt it meets the Creative Commons license requirements for CC BY SA (CC ShareAlike), as all attributes are supposed to be with the image. If there is a special clause that allows this alternate method for ebooks (which imho there should be), I am unaware of it.

Affixing the CC BY SA logo to a pic in Photoshop is easy enough, but the logo needs to link to the license, while the pic needs to link to the original work. You can accomplish multiple links within an image in Photoshop, but the method it uses is intended for webpages, so it saves the resulting file as HTML + a folder with accompanying images. I will have dozens of images so even if I knew how to import these into Sigil and make it all work (i.e. I'd then have to place these linked images inside my text), it seemed over-wrought.

Ditching that, I tried placing the CC BY SA logo below each pic in Sigil (I made a very small one in Photoshop), and use Sigil to link it to the license, then the image can be linked to the original, per lic requirements... however you also have to use the author's title of the image, and his/her name. That is a lot of info, especially when the author chooses an exceptionally long name for the image... and now imagine two images side-by-side that are 250px wide each, and it became clear this was not going to work. It would def require a separate page to keep the book looking clean and I doubt that meets CC BY SA requirements. (Some authors probably wouldn't mind, but others might.) ?? IAC I want to be in compliance.

Personally, after two days of trying every angle, I arrived at the inescapable conclusion that CC0-licensed images are the way to go. For those new to this, CC0 (that's a zero) means the author released the work into the public domain to use for any reason without restrictions or need of attribution. I am affixing the CC0 logo to each image just so people know the pictures weren't pilfered. And I am keeping a table of where each came from and the author, as I do want to credit the authors who were kind enough to make their work available, even though it isn't required... and in this case I can use a separate page at the end of the book.

If anyone has a better solution for CC BY SA images, or knows that a separate page in ebooks is okay for that more restrictive license, I'd be interested as there may be some images I cannot find with a CC0 license.

Last edited by Trane; 02-15-2017 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:27 PM   #5
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Problem. ADE doesn't do image links.
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Old 02-15-2017, 04:07 PM   #6
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What's ADE? Sorry for my ignorance.
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Old 02-15-2017, 04:27 PM   #7
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I am certainly not a lawyer, but I'm thinking those requirements for links are based/intended for web pages where each page is it's own "legal entity" separate from the rest of the domain. An ePub is a complete product - a complete entity - of it's own. The copyright page is valid no matter where it is placed - front or back - of the book because it is a single entity. Likewise I would thing that attributions are ok as long as it is somewhere within that entity.

Maybe someone else can provide a better answer??
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Old 02-15-2017, 04:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trane View Post
What's ADE? Sorry for my ignorance.
ADE is Adobe Digital Editions. It is the most used software worldwide for reading ePub.
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Old 02-15-2017, 04:54 PM   #9
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According to the license requirements...I'm thinking you are OK with a single page at the back:

Quote:

You are free to:
Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material for any purpose, even commercially.
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.

Under the following terms:
Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.
(emphasis added)

Cheers,
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:08 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trane View Post
Guidance? A link to something I can read that would point me in the right direction? (Tried Googling but apparently I don't know how to word the query to get relevant hits.) TIA.

EDIT: I think I found what I needed but any input is welcome. I will leave this in case it helps others... here is the link I found to help.
I would just handle it similar to their Book/Offline example:

Click image for larger version

Name:	SampleCCFigure.png
Views:	414
Size:	21.5 KB
ID:	155005

Quote:
<div class="entirefigure">
<div class="figureimage"><img alt="Figure 1: Sample Title" src="..\Images\Figure1.png"/></div>

<p class="figuretitle">Figure 1: Sample Title</p>

<p class="caption"><i>Sample Photo</i> by Sample Person.<br /><a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/">CC-BY-SA 4.0</a>.</p>
</div>
Sample CSS:

Code:
div.entirefigure {
	margin-top: 1em;
	margin-bottom: 1em;
	page-break-inside: avoid;
}

div.figureimage {
	text-align: center;
	margin-left: 0;
	margin-right: 0;
}

p.figuretitle {
	font-weight: bold;
	text-align: center;
	margin-left: 0;
	margin-right: 0;
}

p.caption {
	font-size: .75em;
	text-align: right;
	margin-left: 0;
	margin-right: 0;
}
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trane View Post
Affixing the CC BY SA logo to a pic in Photoshop is easy enough, but the logo needs to link to the license, while the pic needs to link to the original work.
There is no need to include the little CC logo if you don't want to. As Turtle91 pointed out, "You may do so in any reasonable manner". If it becomes too burdensome, you can just include the info using an alternate method (for example, including the link to the CC page).

And I am no fan of merging captions into the images themselves (that is just going to cause you headaches in the future + isn't Searchable/Text-to-Speech friendly + doesn't follow user settings [font size, font color, font, [...]]).

Also, as JSWolf mentioned, links surrounding images don't work too well in ADE. It would probably be better to just have a text link somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trane View Post
Ditching that, I tried placing the CC BY SA logo below each pic in Sigil (I made a very small one in Photoshop), and use Sigil to link it to the license, then the image can be linked to the original, per lic requirements... however you also have to use the author's title of the image, and his/her name.
Depends on the version. For example, in 4.0 there is no "Title of work required":

https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wik...cific_elements

And IF it becomes too burdensome to shove all that info into a little tiny caption, I would follow what Toxaris recommended... just have a page/section at the very end that goes into more detail:

Quote:
Figure 1 is <i>Sample Photo</i> ©2017 by Sample Person. Released under <a href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/">CC-BY-SA 4.0</a>. Original source: <a href="www.sampleimagesite.com/123.png">www.sampleimagesite.com/123.png</a>.
OR you could do something like include this info in a footnote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trane View Post
Personally, after two days of trying every angle, I arrived at the inescapable conclusion that CC0-licensed images are the way to go. For those new to this, CC0 (that's a zero) means the author released the work into the public domain to use for any reason without restrictions or need of attribution.
Don't want to get bogged down in the specifics, but CC0 is not the Public Domain... Copyright is very sticky, meaning it is automatically applied + impossible to get rid of under the current laws. Even under CC0, depending on the jurisdiction, there may be a whole host of other "neighboring rights" still applied:

https://wiki.creativecommons.org/wik...ring_rights.3F

For example, in the EU, creators may still have Moral Rights (no such thing as Moral Rights in the US). And you know these copyright maximalists... they are constantly creating new laws to pull previously Public Domain material under copyright.

From all of my years of being interested in the topic, CC-BY is probably your best bet to something that is actually enforceable in court internationally, while still being as close to the Public Domain as currently possible.

Side Note: As an example of new laws trying to pull from the Public Domain, a few years ago in Argentina:

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20...ikipedia.shtml

Quote:
[...] a proposed law would extend the copyright in photos from 25 years after an image was taken (or 20 years from first publication) to life plus 70 years -- a vast extension that would mean that most photos taken in the 20th century would still be in copyright.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trane View Post
I am affixing the CC0 logo to each image just so people know the pictures weren't pilfered.
No. I would say it would be more accurate to include no information than false information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trane View Post
And I am keeping a table of where each came from and the author, as I do want to credit the authors who were kind enough to make their work available, even though it isn't required...
Attribution is always a great idea, and any reasonable person should try to give thanks/credit where credit is due.

Last edited by Tex2002ans; 02-15-2017 at 07:38 PM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 07:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Problem. ADE doesn't do image links.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
ADE is Adobe Digital Editions. It is the most used software worldwide for reading ePub.
Thanks, that's good to know for CC BY SA [which requires attribution links]. Looks like the argument for a separate page would be a must in e-books in that case.

CC0 doesn't require attribution so no links are required. Another good reason to use CC0 if at all possible.
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Old 02-15-2017, 08:05 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Tex2002ans View Post
Don't want to get bogged down in the specifics, but CC0 is not the Public Domain... Copyright is very sticky, meaning it is automatically applied + impossible to get rid of under the current laws. Even under CC0, depending on the jurisdiction, there may be a whole host of other "neighboring rights" still applied [...]

From all of my years of being interested in the topic, CC-BY is probably your best bet to something that is actually enforceable in court internationally, while still being as close to the Public Domain as currently possible.
From what I read at CC on the CC0 "Public Domain" license, there are two types of CC0 and therefore 2 different logos... one is a C with a slash line through it.... this is the "Public Domain mark" intended for works with "no known copyright" such as very old works, etc. Libraries or museums might use this mark when posting certain materials.

Then there is the CC0 logo that is a 0 (zero) with a slash through it. This means the person posting the work is the author and has released the work into the PD without reserving rights or requiring attribution. (Edit: This is the only CC0 I am using.)

I much prefer this to CC BY SA, personally.

As to putting the 0 (zero) logo on pictures that the author posted with the CC0 license...

Quote:
No. I would say it would be more accurate to include no information than false information.
Imo it is not false information to include the author's license info. ? (Edit: Maybe you were thinking of the "Public Domain mark" and no, I would not use works with that mark as I don't know if the person who assigned it knows if the copyright has expired or not... plus the pictures I need are current pictures taken by the creators of the work, so the CC0 0-slash license applies.)

Quote:
Attribution is always a great idea, and any reasonable person should try to give thanks/credit where credit is due.
Totally agreed! And thanks for all of your valuable input.

Last edited by Trane; 02-15-2017 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 08:18 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
According to the license requirements...I'm thinking you are OK with a single page at the back:

(emphasis added)

Cheers,
This is helpful and I will keep an eye on it going forward for any future books that might require images. For my purposes at this point, however, I hope to use mostly or all CC0 images. This book has been 3 years in the making, and once it's done I don't want to have to revisit it for the purpose of dealing with the pictures again. For example, in a year or two they might come up with a standard way they want e-books to present attribution for CC BY SA, and if it doesn't just happen to be the way I did it... I will be on to other projects by then, and as I mentioned, this book has a lot of images, so it wouldn't be like "Oh, no big deal just have to change this little bit of code..." It would be an all-day interruption. Maybe more than one day.

I might be willing to chance it with a smaller book and fewer pics, but not with this particular project. I am probably being overly cautious but I prefer that to being wrong later.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:09 PM   #14
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Great!

However, I don't think you need to worry about 'revisiting' the work if they change the standard in the future. The images are released under a specific version of the license... I think the latest for CC SA is version 4. As long as you comply with the requirements of the version under which it was released the author cannot take back - or change - those licenses.

As a matter of fact, it says so, right on the license:

Quote:
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:35 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Turtle91 View Post
Great!

However, I don't think you need to worry about 'revisiting' the work if they change the standard in the future. The images are released under a specific version of the license... I think the latest for CC SA is version 4. As long as you comply with the requirements of the version under which it was released the author cannot take back - or change - those licenses.

As a matter of fact, it says so, right on the license:
Funny you mention this b/c I read a blog post the other day from a woman who was using a CC BY SA image on her website, and she was contacted by the copyright owner telling her she was in violation of the license. It turned out he changed the CC license type at some point, long after she had started using it. She made the point it's hard to prove the image was posted with a particular license when the owner can change the license type anytime they want (I don't know if that's true, just repeating what she said). She politely wrote back to the copyright holder "thanking him for making her aware he had changed his CC license" (even though he didn't say that). He responded without admitting he changed it, but after another exchange or two he implied he had (according to her read of the exchange... she posted both sides and I didn't read it quite that way).

IAC the entire point of her post was to "beware" of CC BY SA b/c "the owners can change the license type anytime they want, putting you in non-compliance." So she switched to CC0 images. That was another thing that put me off my feed where CC BY SA is concerned, but maybe she was mistaken and he "had no right" to change the license type. I am no CC expert!

However your help was much appreciated as I do feel easier about including a page within the book to reference any CC BY SA images if it turns out in the end I have to include a few!
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