Writing alone or with others and door stopper books

jbcohen · 04-04-2012, 07:53 AM

Some sci-fi authors chose to write alone while others chose to work with other authors in a collaborative effort. I have often wondered what factor(s) go into a decision to write with other authors. Some factors that I have seen include: Giving a start to new and aspiring authors and some authors have become house names such as Don Pendelton and for quite a while Tom Clancy.

I have also thought a bit about what is often called door stoper novels in other words books that are so huge that they can quite often used to hold open a door at home. I used to be quite intimidated by these novels since they were so large I was intimidated by the shear size wondering if I could even hope to read something that big. Well with the increasing sucess of electronic book readers I am not as intimidated by those door stopper novels since I do not ever actually see the physical size of the novel.

In some ways a door stopper novel can be a great thing since the author has so many pages to developp the story line he/she can really develop the story line and the world around the character(s) so the reader gets a better thought out plot line then the smaller novels. Series novels also tend to be great this way giving the author more pages to develop the story line(s). I also like the ability to really get to know the characters that I am reading about in the door stopper novels and series novels. However I have heard some of my pals saying that they do not like the door stopper and series novels since the story line is more dragged out and not well thought out, "if it was well thought out the book would not be as long" one of my older pals have told me.

mewmartigan · 04-04-2012, 08:09 AM

I like doorstopper novels! Neal Stephenson seems to be very good at the doorstop novel....and depending on who you ask, he goes off on a lot of entertaining tangents or fills the books with fluff

I agree that a Kindle does make the doorstopper easier...some of those books are heavy. I haven't read Game of Thrones but when I looked at it in the bookstore, not only was it a large book but the text was some of the smallest print I have ever seen in a novel.

Sometimes I am actually a little bothered by the fact that I have to pay the same price for my 250 page Star Wars novel as I do for a 1000 page epic fantasy novel.
Not trying to start a conversation on book prices, just sayin.....

Yapyap · 04-04-2012, 08:38 AM

Oddly enough, I really like series - and am more than willing to read 3-4-5 books in a series in a row, at 300-600 pages each, but tackling a 1000+ page single novel fills me with dread and I just really don't like them.

I think it's something to do with being a goal-oriented person, wanting to reach the end (or a designated end point of an instalment in a series) within a "reasonable" (to me) time frame. If I don't manage to finish a book in 4-5 days, I start to get antsy and lose interest.

And yes, I know it doesn't make a lot of sense logically, but when have reading preferences ever made sense anyway?

That said, if it's a new book in a series I adore, I tend to hope it's longer and don't have issues with them being up to ~800 pages.

dadioflex · 04-04-2012, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mewmartigan

Sometimes I am actually a little bothered by the fact that I have to pay the same price for my 250 page Star Wars novel as I do for a 1000 page epic fantasy novel.
Not trying to start a conversation on book prices, just sayin.....

Hence the purple, adjective-laden prose that was common amongst the pulps when writers were paid by the word (at a rate not dissimilar to what it is today).

DiapDealer · 04-04-2012, 08:55 AM

I like books that are just the right length for the story that's being told. I've read novellas that were too long and massive tomes that were too short. It's the pacing/structure of a book that determines if it's too short/long... not the word/page count. There's a few authors whose 1000+ page books manage to maintain the same intensity/interest level as other author's 300 page snacks.

Page count doesn't really influence me one way or another when it comes to purchasing or deciding to read a certain book/story. I like variety. I just reserve the right to abandon any work where the pacing seems unnatural (or it feels unnecessarily padded)... regardless of its overall length.

I honestly don't know why some authors collaborate. I have no trouble reading some collaborations, but I think writing a true collaboration (same book, two writers) would be a hair-pulling, gnashing of teeth nightmare of epic proportions—but that's just me.

Nancy Fulda · 04-04-2012, 12:18 PM

Some of my favorite collaborators -- Wendy and Richard Pini -- are a married couple. I imagine collaborations like that are a breed all their own.

I know that Baen frequently pairs new authors with pros for marketing reasons, but I'm not sure whether most of those are true collaborations in the sense of "we plotted, planned, and executed this novel together from start to finish".

Penforhire · 04-04-2012, 02:17 PM

I've always wondered about collaboration. It has to be painful. I much better understood shared worlds, like the Thieves World books. Those are all about not having to reinvent the wheel with regards to world building.

Door stoppers? They are not inviting to me so I have to have a good reason to pick up a series of books that are that size. My experience is mixed. Some authors use that length to great advantage (+1 for Stephenson) and others bore or disappoint me with how they fill out that length.

DrNefario · 04-04-2012, 04:24 PM

I find it kind of comforting to be in the middle of big fat fantasy epic. Or a huge long series of books. Or a huge long series of big fat fantasy epics.

I don't think I really have very many collaborations. And many of those I do have are quite clearly broken into parts for each author.

cearbhallain · 04-05-2012, 01:44 AM

A quality door stopper is a thing to truly treasure. It keeps you entertained, and it doesn't end too soon. A really good one will leave you wanting more. _Game of Thrones_ falls into this category. Last year I read the first of a series, it was called _The Black Prism_ and at first I was skeptical since I'm not a huge fan of fantasy, but by the end I was shouting for more. The second book hasn't been released yet.

There's a difference between padded tripe, such as the Thomas Covenant series, and a truly great epic like LOTR or the first Amber Chronicles. Covenant you might finish because you feel like you've made an investment, the others you ration out because once you do get to the end, the story is really over - and what will you read then?

04-04-2012, 07:53 AM	#1
jbcohen Wizard Posts: 3,030 Karma: 11196738 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Where am I? Device: Kindle Paperwhite Signature edition and a Samsung S24 Ultra	Writing alone or with others and door stopper books Some sci-fi authors chose to write alone while others chose to work with other authors in a collaborative effort. I have often wondered what factor(s) go into a decision to write with other authors. Some factors that I have seen include: Giving a start to new and aspiring authors and some authors have become house names such as Don Pendelton and for quite a while Tom Clancy. I have also thought a bit about what is often called door stoper novels in other words books that are so huge that they can quite often used to hold open a door at home. I used to be quite intimidated by these novels since they were so large I was intimidated by the shear size wondering if I could even hope to read something that big. Well with the increasing sucess of electronic book readers I am not as intimidated by those door stopper novels since I do not ever actually see the physical size of the novel. In some ways a door stopper novel can be a great thing since the author has so many pages to developp the story line he/she can really develop the story line and the world around the character(s) so the reader gets a better thought out plot line then the smaller novels. Series novels also tend to be great this way giving the author more pages to develop the story line(s). I also like the ability to really get to know the characters that I am reading about in the door stopper novels and series novels. However I have heard some of my pals saying that they do not like the door stopper and series novels since the story line is more dragged out and not well thought out, "if it was well thought out the book would not be as long" one of my older pals have told me.

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04-04-2012, 08:09 AM	#2
mewmartigan Guru Posts: 852 Karma: 8242060 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: Kindle Oasis (2019)	I like doorstopper novels! Neal Stephenson seems to be very good at the doorstop novel....and depending on who you ask, he goes off on a lot of entertaining tangents or fills the books with fluff I agree that a Kindle does make the doorstopper easier...some of those books are heavy. I haven't read Game of Thrones but when I looked at it in the bookstore, not only was it a large book but the text was some of the smallest print I have ever seen in a novel. Sometimes I am actually a little bothered by the fact that I have to pay the same price for my 250 page Star Wars novel as I do for a 1000 page epic fantasy novel. Not trying to start a conversation on book prices, just sayin.....

04-04-2012, 08:38 AM	#3
Yapyap Guru Posts: 861 Karma: 3543721 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Estonia Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad 3, Samsung Galaxy S7 Edge	Oddly enough, I really like series - and am more than willing to read 3-4-5 books in a series in a row, at 300-600 pages each, but tackling a 1000+ page single novel fills me with dread and I just really don't like them. I think it's something to do with being a goal-oriented person, wanting to reach the end (or a designated end point of an instalment in a series) within a "reasonable" (to me) time frame. If I don't manage to finish a book in 4-5 days, I start to get antsy and lose interest. And yes, I know it doesn't make a lot of sense logically, but when have reading preferences ever made sense anyway? That said, if it's a new book in a series I adore, I tend to hope it's longer and don't have issues with them being up to ~800 pages.

04-04-2012, 08:55 AM	#5
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,364 Karma: 203720150 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	I like books that are just the right length for the story that's being told. I've read novellas that were too long and massive tomes that were too short. It's the pacing/structure of a book that determines if it's too short/long... not the word/page count. There's a few authors whose 1000+ page books manage to maintain the same intensity/interest level as other author's 300 page snacks. Page count doesn't really influence me one way or another when it comes to purchasing or deciding to read a certain book/story. I like variety. I just reserve the right to abandon any work where the pacing seems unnatural (or it feels unnecessarily padded)... regardless of its overall length. I honestly don't know why some authors collaborate. I have no trouble reading some collaborations, but I think writing a true collaboration (same book, two writers) would be a hair-pulling, gnashing of teeth nightmare of epic proportions—but that's just me.

04-04-2012, 12:18 PM	#6
Nancy Fulda I write stories. Posts: 700 Karma: 16437432 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Northern Germany Device: kindle	Some of my favorite collaborators -- Wendy and Richard Pini -- are a married couple. I imagine collaborations like that are a breed all their own. I know that Baen frequently pairs new authors with pros for marketing reasons, but I'm not sure whether most of those are true collaborations in the sense of "we plotted, planned, and executed this novel together from start to finish".

04-04-2012, 02:17 PM	#7
Penforhire Wizard Posts: 2,230 Karma: 7145404 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Southern California Device: Kindle Voyage & iPhone 7+	I've always wondered about collaboration. It has to be painful. I much better understood shared worlds, like the Thieves World books. Those are all about not having to reinvent the wheel with regards to world building. Door stoppers? They are not inviting to me so I have to have a good reason to pick up a series of books that are that size. My experience is mixed. Some authors use that length to great advantage (+1 for Stephenson) and others bore or disappoint me with how they fill out that length.

04-04-2012, 04:24 PM	#8
DrNefario Wizard Posts: 2,189 Karma: 12000000 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: UK Device: Kindle, Kobo Touch, Nook SimpleTouch	I find it kind of comforting to be in the middle of big fat fantasy epic. Or a huge long series of books. Or a huge long series of big fat fantasy epics. I don't think I really have very many collaborations. And many of those I do have are quite clearly broken into parts for each author.

04-05-2012, 01:44 AM	#9
cearbhallain Groupie Posts: 183 Karma: 1053258 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Fort Vancouver Device: nook	A quality door stopper is a thing to truly treasure. It keeps you entertained, and it doesn't end too soon. A really good one will leave you wanting more. _Game of Thrones_ falls into this category. Last year I read the first of a series, it was called _The Black Prism_ and at first I was skeptical since I'm not a huge fan of fantasy, but by the end I was shouting for more. The second book hasn't been released yet. There's a difference between padded tripe, such as the Thomas Covenant series, and a truly great epic like LOTR or the first Amber Chronicles. Covenant you might finish because you feel like you've made an investment, the others you ration out because once you do get to the end, the story is really over - and what will you read then?

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