Wannabe-writer's FAQs - Help from experts?

[WBW]

Good morning All!!

On this great forum I've found a lot of advice specifically for ebooks. What I'm looking for is some sort of more general guide, about publishing in general. I have a few questions, which I believe a lot of people have when they first consider writing a book.


1) How to choose the right publisher: if I choose to go to a publisher, how do I choose? The obvious method is to look at who publishes books on the same topic as what I'm writing and approach them. Any other suggestion? Should I start with the big names and move down until someone accepts my book (if ever)?

2) How to increase the probability that my book is accepted: is there some sort of "code of good manners" when approaching a publisher? I have never even met anyone working in book publishing. Are you supposed to send them an email with a pdf? Mail them a printout? Schedule a meeting in person and give it to them? Also, people say that, when you look for a job, going through the traditional channel (CV submission on the website, etc...) is not as effective as going through one's personal network. Does the same apply to book publishing? Should I avoid sending emails to unknown publishers and focus my efforts on reaching someone in book publishing through friends of friends?

3) How to negotiate with a publisher: I know that first time writers can expect a VERY little share of the price (2%-5%). Is this information updated? Did the presence of Google Books and Amazon make this number go up a little bit? In addition, because of my position as witness of some events (see below, point 5), I believe I can get a little more. Does it make sense?

4) The most difficult question. Is it worth going to a publisher? I mean, I'm sure their distribution network, credibility, etc... is a lot higher than mine, but still, the share of the pie they take is huge. Getting 5% vs. 50% means that, before the publisher's services are worth what they cost, my book must sell 10 times as much as it would do if I just published it on Amazon. Or, even more "independent" way: I set up my own website, where you can either download my story as an ebook or order a shipment of my p-book, which I have produced by a printing company. I buy a bunch of Google Adwords and advertise my website and there I go.

5) Asking for feedback & protecting your book: I'll start with an introduction. I believe the value of my book is not in my "beautiful" writing (I studied a bit of literature, but I'm far from a professional writer), but in the events that are described in it. In the recent past I've been involved (together with a lot of other people) in events that ended up in the press (especially the sector-specific press) and I believe that the story from my perspective would be of some interest. I'm planning to publish it anonymously for privacy reasons. So here's the question: I'd love to have some people read it and give me their comments before publishing it. However, what prevents them from writing the story with different words and publishing it anonymously themselves? Is there a way to protect my work?


OK, I believe I wrote enough bullshit for today. Any help from people who know something about all this would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks! Merry Christmas!

A wannabe-writer

[crich70]

I'm not a professional writer either but I have learned some things by reading about the business. I've put my comments in after your questions. Hope they will be of some help.

Originally Posted by WBW

Good morning All!!

On this great forum I've found a lot of advice specifically for ebooks. What I'm looking for is some sort of more general guide, about publishing in general. I have a few questions, which I believe a lot of people have when they first consider writing a book.


1) How to choose the right publisher: if I choose to go to a publisher, how do I choose? The obvious method is to look at who publishes books on the same topic as what I'm writing and approach them. Any other suggestion? Should I start with the big names and move down until someone accepts my book (if ever)?

I'd look up which publishers accept a given genre (if writing fiction) and what their submission guidelines are. Some accept submissions that you are also sending to other publishers and some don't.

2) How to increase the probability that my book is accepted: is there some sort of "code of good manners" when approaching a publisher? I have never even met anyone working in book publishing. Are you supposed to send them an email with a pdf? Mail them a printout? Schedule a meeting in person and give it to them? Also, people say that, when you look for a job, going through the traditional channel (CV submission on the website, etc...) is not as effective as going through one's personal network. Does the same apply to book publishing? Should I avoid sending emails to unknown publishers and focus my efforts on reaching someone in book publishing through friends of friends?

Again look at the publisher's guidelines. Some want a manuscript through an agent and some accept unagented ones. Also it's best to consult a current Writer's Market book as editors do leave or retire sometimes and some publishers have different editors for different genre's.

3) How to negotiate with a publisher: I know that first time writers can expect a VERY little share of the price (2%-5%). Is this information updated? Did the presence of Google Books and Amazon make this number go up a little bit? In addition, because of my position as witness of some events (see below, point 5), I believe I can get a little more. Does it make sense?

Generally the traditional publishers have the percentage of royalties listed in their guidelines. As a new writer I'd think you would have little chance of negotiating a larger advance, etc. unless your book was really good. Stephen King didn't get 10 million advances when he started out. He worked his way up from book to book.

4) The most difficult question. Is it worth going to a publisher? I mean, I'm sure their distribution network, credibility, etc... is a lot higher than mine, but still, the share of the pie they take is huge. Getting 5% vs. 50% means that, before the publisher's services are worth what they cost, my book must sell 10 times as much as it would do if I just published it on Amazon. Or, even more "independent" way: I set up my own website, where you can either download my story as an ebook or order a shipment of my p-book, which I have produced by a printing company. I buy a bunch of Google Adwords and advertise my website and there I go.

Generally I'd guess that that is a personal choice now days. You may be able to keep your digital rights (ebooks) and publish first through a traditional publisher. Certainly they do have more resources, but you will still have to do some things to promote your book yourself. They won't go on talk shows and talk about your book or sign copies for you at a book signing for example. That's part of the author's job.

5) Asking for feedback & protecting your book: I'll start with an introduction. I believe the value of my book is not in my "beautiful" writing (I studied a bit of literature, but I'm far from a professional writer), but in the events that are described in it. In the recent past I've been involved (together with a lot of other people) in events that ended up in the press (especially the sector-specific press) and I believe that the story from my perspective would be of some interest. I'm planning to publish it anonymously for privacy reasons. So here's the question: I'd love to have some people read it and give me their comments before publishing it. However, what prevents them from writing the story with different words and publishing it anonymously themselves? Is there a way to protect my work?

Before worrying about protecting your work I'd make sure that you haven't written something that someone else might consider libel. The editor of most publishing offices would be involved in that to an extent I would think if said publisher wanted to publish your book. I mean no one wants to get sued. That said as I understand it the minute you write a book it is copyrighted to you. At least that's how it is here in the U.S.

OK, I believe I wrote enough bullshit for today. Any help from people who know something about all this would be extremely appreciated.

Thanks! Merry Christmas!

A wannabe-writer

Merry Christmas to you as well.

[mr ploppy]

Ask yourself why you want a publisher, and what you expect to get in return for their 80% share of your income. The only ones open to submissions these days are small press outfits, so even if book shops still exist by the time it comes out you won't be getting into any of those.

Depending on what you write, some small press publishers are quite well respected by readers so there would be a certain prestige value in giving away one of your stories in order to drive sales to your creator-owned work.

Other than that, I don't see the point in putting yourself through all the heartache of rejection. Get it written, get it fixed, get it proof-read, get it on the internet. Even if it only attracts a very small audience that's still better than having it sat in the middle of a massive pile of mauscripts on someone's desk until they get around to reading the first paragraph and binning it.

[WBW]

Thanks a lot to both of you! That's great advice!

As a new writer I'd think you would have little chance of negotiating a larger advance

I was not even thinking of getting ANY advance :-) Royalties already would be a great satisfaction.

They won't go on talk shows

I don't think I'll ever get invited to one... But I see what you mean, advertising is not just a nice cover and a nicely placed shelf.

You may be able to keep your digital rights (ebooks) and publish first through a traditional publisher.

This is very interesting. An option would be to start as an ebook and, if it attracts attention, sell printing rights to a publisher.

I mean no one wants to get sued. That said as I understand it the minute you write a book it is copyrighted to you.

I believe it is that way in most countries. The point is, how do you actually prove you wrote it at exactly that point in time? Is a MS Word file enough evidence? Anyway, I have so much work to do before I worry about that that it is not an urgent problem.

Ask yourself why you want a publisher, and what you expect to get in return for their 80% share of your income.

My idea was simply to sell more, because of their distribution network...

even if book shops still exist by the time it comes out you won't be getting into any of those.

...but for small press outfits, I guess the benefit is much more limited, as you highlighted.

Some want a manuscript through an agent and some accept unagented ones.

Maybe with an agent I could reach larger companies and get the book into the shops? But then again, do I want to? It would be a niche sector and I'm not sure getting it into the shops would be worth adding one more money-hungry ring to the chain...

Depending on what you write, some small press publishers are quite well respected by readers so there would be a certain prestige value in giving away one of your stories in order to drive sales to your creator-owned work.

I have to research on that, I'm not sure whether that is the case in my sector, but it's a brilliant suggestion.

having it sat in the middle of a massive pile of mauscripts on someone's desk until they get around to reading the first paragraph and binning it.

Some accept submissions that you are also sending to other publishers and some don't.

Looks like a real nightmare, which would take months or years... :-(

Thanks a lot for your really wise advice. Both of you have greatly contributed to getting me going the right direction. And now, time to stop dreaming and get back to the keyboard :-)

Thanks and Happy holidays!

[Nancy Fulda]

WBW, you might want to browse the web sites of professional writing organisations in your genre. I'm not sure about Romance Writers of America or Mystery Writers of America, but I know the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America has an entire section of the web site devoted to helping new writers get oriented.

Although it's definitely possible to go straight to e-publication and do well financially, I submit that the painful submission/rejection process of traditional publishing still has value. Traditional publishers are still the only reliable way to get books in bookstores, for example. And a (good) traditional publisher can provide much better publicity than a single author working alone.

[DavidKitson]

Originally Posted by Nancy Fulda

WBW, you might want to browse the web sites of professional writing organisations in your genre. I'm not sure about Romance Writers of America or Mystery Writers of America, but I know the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America has an entire section of the web site devoted to helping new writers get oriented.

Although it's definitely possible to go straight to e-publication and do well financially, I submit that the painful submission/rejection process of traditional publishing still has value. Traditional publishers are still the only reliable way to get books in bookstores, for example. And a (good) traditional publisher can provide much better publicity than a single author working alone.

Actually, this is not the only way any more. Now, somewhere between traditional publishing and vanity publishing, there is a new niche. If you're an up-and-coming writer then they will publish your story in print and distribute through conventional channels all at their expense and e-publish your story as well.

They are a lot less pickier than most publishers since they have low costs, so if your story is moving a fair number of copies and getting good reviews and comments on forums, then you're likely to find an inroads with them.

I was contacted by one of them to suggest putting my story forward, but I still want to keep the ebook version free and they do require to have all publishing rights. That and the fact that they don't hire editors, so editing is still the writer's responsibility, which if you know of my story you'll know is a weakness of mine

But it is another avenue to getting into Pbooks. The link is https://www.justfiction-edition.com/ in case anyone wanted to look into it. They certainly seem to have some books out in print.

Anyway to the OP -
If you want people to crit your book, the term used is "Trust". Simple as that, you need to trust them to not rip you off. I don't think books are ripped off too often. Most authors wouldn't want it to happen to them and so don't do it to other people either. If you don't trust anyone, then employ someone to review it and then you have some professional control over what happens.

But in any event, giving your unpublished work to someone else to review does not diminish your rights ( in particular, copyright ) at all.

A bigger concern would be that they spill the beans on what you're writing before you can publish, potentially leading to someone taking out an injunction against you - so the advice in an earlier post is well worth heeding.

I don't worry too much that someone might rip my idea off. The fear is always there, but most people are honest. But if you're really worried, consult a lawyer - they would be able to answer your question more accurately

Regards
David

[ApK]

Originally Posted by WBW

I believe it is that way in most countries. The point is, how do you actually prove you wrote it at exactly that point in time? Is a MS Word file enough evidence?

No, a Word file would not be enough. In the US, if you ever need to sue for copyright infringement, you MUST have your copyright registered through the Copyright Office. While your copyright does in fact exist the moment you set a copyright-able work down in tangible form, you cannot legally defend it in US courts unless you register it first.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/fa...al.html#mywork

ApK

[DavidKitson]

Originally Posted by ApK

No, a Word file would not be enough. In the US, if you ever need to sue for copyright infringement, you MUST have your copyright registered through the Copyright Office. While your copyright does in fact exist the moment you set a copyright-able work down in tangible form, you cannot legally defend it in US courts unless you register it first.
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/fa...al.html#mywork

ApK

A very good point, but is there any requirement to register it prior to the infringement? Unless you're planning on challenging every infringement legally, I always thought it was of questionable value?

ref: http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/stopp...pyright-myths/

So by my reading of that, if someone rips off your work and prints a million copies before you know and you tell them to withdraw them and they don't then you can register your work to take legal action, but you can't sue them for what happened before registration... So you can't get damages for what they did.

However you can take action against them for anything that happens after that, including failing to reasonably recall books or for sales that occur after the date when you do register it. It doesn't appear to legitimise the plagiarism. It only seems to limit what actions you can take prior to registration. Though keep in mind that not all countries allow registration.

Registration should be viewed as "additional rights" though I would be interested to hear a legal opinion on this.

Also, it would be a very brave publisher to deliberately print infringing material or to rely on this to avoid a recall. The real worst case I see is that someone might publish the material on the Internet free of charge for everyone, but from what I've seen, that is going to happen anyway, no matter what controls and rights you have.

Regards
David

[Nancy Fulda]

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

I was contacted by one of them to suggest putting my story forward, but I still want to keep the ebook version free and they do require to have all publishing rights. That and the fact that they don't hire editors, so editing is still the writer's responsibility, which if you know of my story you'll know is a weakness of mine

I'd be very cautious about a setup like this. If I've understood the situation right, this company is requesting ALL publishing rights, meaning that once you've published your work with them you are not free to take it anywhere else. And in exchange they are offering... exactly nothing. No editing, no proofreading; do they arrange for cover design and if so, are the covers any good?

I guess I'm just not seeing the advantages of publishing through a company that is essentially a content mill, funneling authors' work through Amazon's KDP and CreateSpace programs and skimming a cut of royalties off the top.

[Edited to Add: Oops... I just realized that VydorScope has initiated a far more detailed discussion of this topic in another thread. Which makes my comments pretty much moot.]

[ApK]

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

A very good point, but is there any requirement to register it prior to the infringement? Unless you're planning on challenging every infringement legally, I always thought it was of questionable value?

ref: http://www.plagiarismtoday.com/stopp...pyright-myths/

So by my reading of that, if someone rips off your work and prints a million copies before you know and you tell them to withdraw them and they don't then you can register your work to take legal action, but you can't sue them for what happened before registration... So you can't get damages for what they did.

David

As I understand it (having asked questions only about US laws) you can register anytime before bringing suit, BUT, if you expect your work to have any commercial value, or you have any potential interest in defending your copyright, I cannot imagine why you would not want to register ASAP. I think it only costs like $25 or something.
In addition to the reasons you mention, I'd guess that any action you take to to protect your work, and the earlier you take it, only adds supporting evidence to your case.

ApK

[DavidKitson]

Originally Posted by ApK

As I understand it (having asked questions only about US laws) you can register anytime before bringing suit, BUT, if you expect your work to have any commercial value, or you have any potential interest in defending your copyright, I cannot imagine why you would not want to register ASAP. I think it only costs like $25 or something.
In addition to the reasons you mention, I'd guess that any action you take to to protect your work, and the earlier you take it, only adds supporting evidence to your case.

ApK

Good point

David.

[altworld]

I've been thinking about this and this thought came to me.

The marketplace has shifted, the model is going to be different and closer to the music scene than the older traditional model.

We the writer are now the indie band, going from gig to gig gathering a following to the point we are noticed or make enough sales to be noticed by the music labels, and then are offered contracts.

Gone are the begging letters asking for an Agent to get there intern to look at our work, the begging letters will start coming from the Agents to sign us. The ground has shifted, we the indie writer have a lot more cards and advantages than ever before.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by altworld

I've been thinking about this and this thought came to me.

The marketplace has shifted, the model is going to be different and closer to the music scene than the older traditional model.

We the writer are now the indie band, going from gig to gig gathering a following to the point we are noticed or make enough sales to be noticed by the music labels, and then are offered contracts.

Gone are the begging letters asking for an Agent to get there intern to look at our work, the begging letters will start coming from the Agents to sign us. The ground has shifted, we the indie writer have a lot more cards and advantages than ever before.

I think you're right. I expressed a similar sentiment in this other thread.

[davetrow]

Danger, danger, Will Robinson!

Writer's Beware (a site every aspiring author should be aware of) wrote about JustFiction in August 2011: http://www.sfwa.org/2011/08/solicita...lishing-house/

Bottom line: "If you're looking for traditional publishing, this definitely isn't it--and if you want to self-publish, you can likely get a better deal elsewhere."

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

Actually, this is not the only way any more. Now, somewhere between traditional publishing and vanity publishing, there is a new niche. If you're an up-and-coming writer then they will publish your story in print and distribute through conventional channels all at their expense and e-publish your story as well.

<SNIP>
But it is another avenue to getting into Pbooks. The link is https://www.justfiction-edition.com/ in case anyone wanted to look into it. They certainly seem to have some books out in print.

</SNIP>

[DavidKitson]

Originally Posted by davetrow

Danger, danger, Will Robinson!

Writer's Beware (a site every aspiring author should be aware of) wrote about JustFiction in August 2011: http://www.sfwa.org/2011/08/solicita...lishing-house/

Bottom line: "If you're looking for traditional publishing, this definitely isn't it--and if you want to self-publish, you can likely get a better deal elsewhere."

A very good article on the company involved. Thankyou for posting the link. It's a shame about the argumentative discussion thread that follows on from the article rather than a meaningful contribution to the original.

There's no doubt that it's not an optimal way to go and as I mentioned, the giving up of rights is a problem - but I don't think we're far from where a p-book printer will take on these kinds of stories without tying up e-book rights as a part of the deal.

Because at the moment, print is about the only thing that e-book self-publishers can't get into.

There is little doubt that the traditional publishers have set the barriers for entry too high. The market has, for better or worse, driven itself towards formula fiction.

I too would hope for a different situation in the future where writers prove themselves through self-publishing and professional publishers then offer them contracts - more like how the recording industry tracks down new talent...

Not that I think highly of the recording industry but they are a full generation ahead of the way things are now.

Regards
David