New eTextbooks limited to newest version of Kindle for PC/Mac

jhowell · 06-13-2019, 04:35 PM

Some newer print replica eTextbooks sold on Amazon are available on Kindle for PC/Mac, but only when running the latest version (1.26). The examples I have seen so far are all expensive textbooks from Pearson Education, such as this one and this one.

The book descriptions have a note "This title is not supported on Kindle E-readers. On PC & Mac, the latest version of the Kindle app is required." There is also a popup that states: "This title is only compatible with Kindle for PC & Mac (versions 1.26 or later) and is not supported on Kindle for Windows 8 app. To read this title on Windows 7, 8, or 10, you can use the Kindle for PC app."

Similar, older titles from the same publisher are compatible with older versions of Kindle for PC/Mac. I speculate that the restriction of the newer books to the most recent Kindle for PC/Mac is due to these books being made available only in KFX format.

There is precedent for books being made available only in KFX. That is currently the case for books in Indian languages, Arabic, and Traditional Chinese. It appears that Amazon had to make these KFX-only because the KF8 renderer has issues with these languages.

There is no obvious enhanced capability apparent in these textbooks from their descriptions so I doubt that KF8 limitations is the reason there.

I speculate that this is being done specifically to thwart piracy. These are very expensive books that are sold in limited quantities. I suspect that it was the publisher's decision to opt for the new, stronger DRM of KFX, despite it resulting in limits placed on the book's availability.

This might be the start of a new trend. I will be on the lookout for more KFX-only books appearing on Amazon.

Deskisamess · 06-13-2019, 04:57 PM

Can you install two separate instances of the Kindle app on Windows?

jhowell · 06-13-2019, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Can you install two separate instances of the Kindle app on Windows?

Yes, you can set up a second user account and install a different version for it.

Apparition B5 · 06-14-2019, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhowell

This might be the start of a new trend. I will be on the lookout for more KFX-only books appearing on Amazon.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is the start of a new trend, and if so it will be the start of another new trend of my purchasing eBooks elsewhere.

tomsem · 06-14-2019, 05:03 PM

Setting up a VM with a working Tools environment might be ideal.

Quoth · 06-16-2019, 07:57 AM

"The book descriptions have a note "This title is not supported on Kindle E-readers."
I've encountered this with quite simple novels. It's not just print replica books.

It's a combination of Three stupidities:
1) Amazon providing tools / formats for the Fire (originally misleadingly Kindle Fire as it's a crippled Android LCD tablet), later supported by Mac / Windows.
2) Amazon selling "real ebooks" and also "digital magazines" both in Kindle Store. Greed.
3) Publishers stupidly using these instead of creating regular ebooks.

Now it could be that these text books need colour, or large images, or complex layout not possible in mobi or KF8 (any ordinary KF8 can be converted to mobi or ePub and still be readible). However I've examined some novels I bought using these enhanced "Will not work on ANY eInk ereader Kindle) and Calibre did convert to epub. The formatting was a disaster. Export as RTF worked, then I was able to reformat using LibreOffice Writer and make azw3 / mobi / epubs that worked.

I'm sure there are text books that need the enhanced formating that only works on Kindle Apps and Mac/Windows, but I'd be sure that's rare and the problem is failure of the publishers to understand the tools, workflow or even what is an ebook.

So these are not ebooks in any useful sense for real ereaders. Amazon has been REALLY stupid combining the two kinds of electronic media.
It's like PDFs are not at all ebooks. Stupidly Amazon even allows certain PDFs to be in the Kindle store. Google Books (because they like piracy, boosts ad revenue) even encourages PDF format upload, with epub as a secondary option.

Deskisamess · 06-16-2019, 08:18 AM

Quote:

2) Amazon selling "real ebooks" and also "digital magazines" both in Kindle Store. Greed.

How dare they want to sell things.

stumped · 06-16-2019, 09:00 AM

"print replica" probably means pseudo pdf i.e. fixed layout. I have bought ( and returned as not fit for purpose) game strategy guides from amazon that are like that. None of the text reflowed on my fire tablet.
It's a very lazy way to re-publish a print book. - just bundle up some page images in DRM and ramp up the price.

Quoth · 06-16-2019, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

How dare they want to sell things.

I've no problem with people selling things. The problem is greed resulting in MIS-SELLING / false marketing.

Things that are not reflowable true ebooks should not be in the Kindle store. DVDs are not.

HarryT · 06-17-2019, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stumped

"print replica" probably means pseudo pdf i.e. fixed layout. I have bought ( and returned as not fit for purpose) game strategy guides from amazon that are like that. None of the text reflowed on my fire tablet.
It's a very lazy way to re-publish a print book. - just bundle up some page images in DRM and ramp up the price.

Print Replica is not “pseudo PDF”. It is genuine PDF in an Amazon wrapper. You can extract the PDF from it using Calibre’s “KindleUnpack” plugin.

It’s not lazy at all, when used appropriately. There are some things that Kindle formatting just can’t do, such as poetry and plays. Eg, I (deliberately) bought the Print Replica edition of the “New Oxford Shakespeare”, because it has far better formatting (for Shakespeare, that is) than can be achieved using reflowable Kindle formats. I read it on my iPad.

stumped · 06-17-2019, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Print Replica is not “pseudo PDF”. It is genuine PDF in an Amazon wrapper. You can extract the PDF from it using Calibre’s “KindleUnpack” plugin.

.

ok - well if they declared that, in the blurb, and also explicitly said NO REFLOW - that would be more honest.

selling it AS A PDF would be ever clearer.

i take your point re poetry, but in a game strategy guide, like the one I returned, there are pages and pages of text which is very hard to read with only a zoom tool and side to side scrolling for every line. If you compare to a prima games e-guide, unfortunately only readable readable in a browser with a prima log-in , that shows how it could/should have been done.

ADDITIONAL RANT
i have also seen high priced "print replica" music books in kindle store, which seem to offer no benefit over an actual printed version; all you can do with kindle is squint, zoom, try to memorize... there is no way you can actually read+play an A4 page of music which has been shrunk to a 6 inch screen. some are advertised with play along tracks, but they have not bothered to sync display to audio, like you would get in a proper music/tab playback app. You just get some bundled mp3, ripped straight from the CD that comes with the printed book. Its better and much cheaper to buy a used copy of the printed book+CD and rip it yourself!
END OF RANT

HarryT · 06-17-2019, 10:58 AM

That's presumably why Print Replica books can't be bought on an eInk Kindle, but only on the iOS or Android app or K4PC/K4Mac. As you rightly say, they just couldn't be read on a 6" screen.

stumped · 06-17-2019, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

That's presumably why Print Replica books can't be bought on an eInk Kindle, but only on the iOS or Android app or K4PC/K4Mac. As you rightly say, they just couldn't be read on a 6" screen.

Hmmm, maybe.
1. but with a free sample of one those " replica" music books i was able to get it onto PC and take it apart , to see how they had (not) synced audio to display so I probably got it via K for PC. Can't think how else I could have done it.

2.https://www.amazon.co.uk/Mass-Effect...al-text&sr=1-4
this is the game guide that I returned. My web page confirms " you purchased this on ... "
If you expand the available devices list , Kindle e-ink are included.
available on:
Kindle e-Readers
Kindle Paperwhite
Kindle Paperwhite (5th Generation)
Kindle Touch
Kindle Voyage
Kindle
Kindle Oasis.

yet it is an A4 PDF in a DRM wrapper

HarryT · 06-17-2019, 11:15 AM

Interesting. If you look at the New Oxford Shakespeare that I bought:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Oxford-.../dp/B06WP74DPV

you'll see that it says "Format: Print Replica" and, if you click the "Supported devices" link you'll see that it's not available on eInk Kindles. The book you posted a link to gives every indication of being a normal Kindle book. It doesn't say "Print Replica" and it can be bought on any Kindle. An error in the description, perhaps?

stumped · 06-17-2019, 11:44 AM

inconsistent marketing.
the guide that I returned does not say print replica but it was. no reflow of ANY text, anywhere.

And here is one of many play-along music books - kindle edition with audio/video
& available on e-ink.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stevie-Ray-...al-text&sr=1-2
but in extremely small print at bottom of listing is
Audio/Video content is available on Kindle Fire, Kindle Fire HD, iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch devices.

the printed music content of all of these is A4 shrunk to 6 inch for kindle
and you pay the same £9+ for the eink version with no audio & no video !

06-13-2019, 04:35 PM	#1
jhowell Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,678 Karma: 86234809 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Charlottesville, VA Device: Kindles	New eTextbooks limited to newest version of Kindle for PC/Mac Some newer print replica eTextbooks sold on Amazon are available on Kindle for PC/Mac, but only when running the latest version (1.26). The examples I have seen so far are all expensive textbooks from Pearson Education, such as this one and this one. The book descriptions have a note "This title is not supported on Kindle E-readers. On PC & Mac, the latest version of the Kindle app is required." There is also a popup that states: "This title is only compatible with Kindle for PC & Mac (versions 1.26 or later) and is not supported on Kindle for Windows 8 app. To read this title on Windows 7, 8, or 10, you can use the Kindle for PC app." Similar, older titles from the same publisher are compatible with older versions of Kindle for PC/Mac. I speculate that the restriction of the newer books to the most recent Kindle for PC/Mac is due to these books being made available only in KFX format. There is precedent for books being made available only in KFX. That is currently the case for books in Indian languages, Arabic, and Traditional Chinese. It appears that Amazon had to make these KFX-only because the KF8 renderer has issues with these languages. There is no obvious enhanced capability apparent in these textbooks from their descriptions so I doubt that KF8 limitations is the reason there. I speculate that this is being done specifically to thwart piracy. These are very expensive books that are sold in limited quantities. I suspect that it was the publisher's decision to opt for the new, stronger DRM of KFX, despite it resulting in limits placed on the book's availability. This might be the start of a new trend. I will be on the lookout for more KFX-only books appearing on Amazon. Last edited by jhowell; 06-13-2019 at 05:45 PM.

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06-13-2019, 04:57 PM	#2
Deskisamess Wizard Posts: 2,666 Karma: 43102409 Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Ohio Device: iPhone 7+, iPad mini, 2021 iPad Pro 12.9",Paperwhite 6.8"	Can you install two separate instances of the Kindle app on Windows?

06-14-2019, 05:03 PM	#5
tomsem Grand Sorcerer Posts: 6,660 Karma: 26963509 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: USA Device: iPhone 15PM, Kindle Scribe, iPad mini 6, PocketBook InkPad Color 3	Setting up a VM with a working Tools environment might be ideal.

06-16-2019, 07:57 AM	#6
Quoth the rook, bossing Never. Posts: 12,250 Karma: 89531599 Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Ireland Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11	"The book descriptions have a note "This title is not supported on Kindle E-readers." I've encountered this with quite simple novels. It's not just print replica books. It's a combination of Three stupidities: 1) Amazon providing tools / formats for the Fire (originally misleadingly Kindle Fire as it's a crippled Android LCD tablet), later supported by Mac / Windows. 2) Amazon selling "real ebooks" and also "digital magazines" both in Kindle Store. Greed. 3) Publishers stupidly using these instead of creating regular ebooks. Now it could be that these text books need colour, or large images, or complex layout not possible in mobi or KF8 (any ordinary KF8 can be converted to mobi or ePub and still be readible). However I've examined some novels I bought using these enhanced "Will not work on ANY eInk ereader Kindle) and Calibre did convert to epub. The formatting was a disaster. Export as RTF worked, then I was able to reformat using LibreOffice Writer and make azw3 / mobi / epubs that worked. I'm sure there are text books that need the enhanced formating that only works on Kindle Apps and Mac/Windows, but I'd be sure that's rare and the problem is failure of the publishers to understand the tools, workflow or even what is an ebook. So these are not ebooks in any useful sense for real ereaders. Amazon has been REALLY stupid combining the two kinds of electronic media. It's like PDFs are not at all ebooks. Stupidly Amazon even allows certain PDFs to be in the Kindle store. Google Books (because they like piracy, boosts ad revenue) even encourages PDF format upload, with epub as a secondary option.

06-16-2019, 09:00 AM	#8
stumped Wizard Posts: 3,305 Karma: 10259306 Join Date: May 2016 Device: kobo forma, Kobo Libra, Huawei media Tab, fire HD10, PW3 HDX8.9,	"print replica" probably means pseudo pdf i.e. fixed layout. I have bought ( and returned as not fit for purpose) game strategy guides from amazon that are like that. None of the text reflowed on my fire tablet. It's a very lazy way to re-publish a print book. - just bundle up some page images in DRM and ramp up the price.

06-17-2019, 10:58 AM	#12
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	That's presumably why Print Replica books can't be bought on an eInk Kindle, but only on the iOS or Android app or K4PC/K4Mac. As you rightly say, they just couldn't be read on a 6" screen.

06-17-2019, 11:15 AM	#14
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Interesting. If you look at the New Oxford Shakespeare that I bought: https://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Oxford-.../dp/B06WP74DPV you'll see that it says "Format: Print Replica" and, if you click the "Supported devices" link you'll see that it's not available on eInk Kindles. The book you posted a link to gives every indication of being a normal Kindle book. It doesn't say "Print Replica" and it can be bought on any Kindle. An error in the description, perhaps?

06-17-2019, 11:44 AM	#15
stumped Wizard Posts: 3,305 Karma: 10259306 Join Date: May 2016 Device: kobo forma, Kobo Libra, Huawei media Tab, fire HD10, PW3 HDX8.9,	inconsistent marketing. the guide that I returned does not say print replica but it was. no reflow of ANY text, anywhere. And here is one of many play-along music books - kindle edition with audio/video & available on e-ink. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stevie-Ray-...al-text&sr=1-2 but in extremely small print at bottom of listing is Audio/Video content is available on Kindle Fire, Kindle Fire HD, iPad, iPhone, and iPod touch devices. the printed music content of all of these is A4 shrunk to 6 inch for kindle and you pay the same £9+ for the eink version with no audio & no video !

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