Authors are protesting Amazon's 'read and return' e-book policy

[graycyn]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Would that be the Mary Stewart Arthurian Legend books?

No, it was the Harper Hall trilogy (Dragonsong, Dragonsinger, and Dragondrums by Anne McCaffrey. First two have been pulled, or at least I couldn't find them when I looked the other day, but the 3rd is still available.

The quality is BAD. I can excuse a few typos on a backlist book, but these were so bad that I went looking for the publisher's address on the copyright page in order to complain, only to discover THERE WAS NO COPYRIGHT PAGE or any publisher listed. If that doesn't spell pirate...

I read the reviews upon the discovery, no one mentioned they were pirated, just that the ebook quality was poor. So my bad for buying without reading, but I knew I liked the books, and was just so excited to finally see them available in the US as ebook. Never occurred to me that Amazon would be offering pirated books from such a well-known author. I just thought that whatever reason they hadn't been available in the US previously had been resolved. I had been checking for YEARS after all!

My Mary Stewart Arthurian Legend books are all on my bookshelves as hardcovers. I'm aware of the ebook omnibus, but I have long had doubts over the legitimacy of that one.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Hitch

IF Amazon changed it to 7 days, or whatever, I'd have to significantly change my downloading habits...

If...?

Return a Kindle Book Order
Cancel an accidental book order within seven days. Approved refunds are credited to the original payment source within three to five days.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Why reply to your guesswork?

That’s the best you’ve got? Although I’m not surprised, you really have no answer.

As with everything, there’s guesswork and there’s guesswork. Not all guesses are equal, just as all opinions aren’t valid and people aren’t necessarily entitled to them. So the alternative scenario where a lenient return policy of ebooks doesn’t result in more sales and is only due to Amazon’s kindness of heart at the expense of its bottom line is equally plausible? Or perhaps it’s only because Amazon hasn’t figured it out the way you clearly have?

Never mind. Keep digging that hole.

[Tarana]

Originally Posted by tomsem

You can turn off 1-click on per-device basis (except for Kindles, it looks like) or 'everywhere' in your Amazon account settings.

Yes you can but you quickly find out that many of the deals disappear such as the Deal of the Day. It will be offered at its regular price instead of $1.99.

[Tarana]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Oops!

For example, if some chapters are missing no return may be allowed.l

Actually, yes if there is stuff missing, you need to contact Customer Service and they will refund you no matter how long it has been since you bought it. This has happened to me 2-3 times from publishers (I don't usually buy indies due to lack of editing).

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

If...?

I've returned books long after that. Can't say why there isn't a problem, but I've bought books and not started them for a month or longer. Perhaps Amazon looks at the usage date. Dunno.

OTOH, I'm not claiming that they are "accidental purchases." Those--when I dl a book that I already own, etc.--I tend to realize and return quickly. Not always, though:

I did have that happen with...either a Dresden or something like that and didn't realize it until I'd started it. I think it was 4-6 weeks after I bought it. Humorously enough, I'd bought the original from Amazon (in print). They never blinked an eyelash about it. Took it back and credited me the dough.

Hitch

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by issybird

Or perhaps it’s only because Amazon hasn’t figured it out the way you clearly have?

I haven't figured out anything, nor am I claiming I have. A problem was raised: People are reading and returning books within the current seven day return period. What might be a simple solution?

Amazon can tell what books have been read on Kindles or Kindle apps. Perhaps it might be a good idea to disallow returns of books that have been read some percentage up to 100. This is what they do with purchases of video.

Yes, there are people like me that download the books to read on a different device. So this wouldn't solve every single problem. But it would solve the bulk of them. What would be the harm to honest users, returning books accidentally purchased due to Amazon enforcing 1-Click?

---

Separate discussion: should books be returnable simply because the reader did not like them? I'd say no. It is a form of theft. You've read the contents of the book and paid nothing to the creator. Books/movies/music/etc. are not sold with an enjoyment guarantee.

I would be willing to bet that few to no people that feel entitled to return these books have attempted to return an obviously read (or partially read) paper book simply because they did not enjoy the contents.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

A problem was raised: People are reading and returning books within the current seven day return period. What might be a simple solution?

Doesn't it first need to be generally seen as a problem before there's a need for solutions? It seems to me that you're having a hard time accepting that you could just possibly be in the minority in thinking it's a problem.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I would be willing to bet that few to no people that feel entitled to return these books have attempted to return an obviously read (or partially read) paper book simply because they did not enjoy the contents.

Remember when you were willing to bet most of MR would be on board with seeing a 7-day return period on ebooks as a "problem"?

[MGlitch]

The fact that anyone seem to think that a high level of production cost results in a high quality product is laughable and moderately concerning when every market is filled with examples to the contrary. So please spare me the “I’m taking a chance on an indie author” nonsense. You take a chance on all art.

And the idea that an author would rather return money for an unspecified reason vs a review which actually gives them feedback is bonkers.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

And the idea that an author would rather return money for an unspecified reason vs a review which actually gives them feedback is bonkers.

Ask 50 or so authors and get back to us.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Doesn't it first need to be generally seen as a problem before there's a need for solutions? It seems to me that you're having a hard time accepting that you could just possibly be in the minority in thinking it's a problem.


Remember when you were willing to bet most of MR would be on board with seeing a 7-day return period on ebooks as a "problem"?

So a minority having an issue with something that the majority is either fine with or actively takes part in isn’t a problem that needs a solution.

Not sure you really want to die on that hill.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Ask 50 or so authors and get back to us.

Why, others have claimed the reverse with zero evidence, and logic dictates that the author would want to improve in order to sell more books. Rather hard to improve if you don’t know what’s wrong.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

So a minority having an issue with something that the majority is either fine with or actively takes part in isn’t a problem that needs a solution.

Not sure you really want to die on that hill.

The good news is that no one's dying on this hill. So put your hyperbole (or metaphor should you choose to get picky) back in your pocket, Barney.

Besides. I wasn't commenting on what I believed. I was merely commenting on the fact that Zod's track record in betting on people's opinions in this thread hasn't been that great.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I haven't figured out anything, nor am I claiming I have. A problem was raised: People are reading and returning books within the current seven day return period. What might be a simple solution?

Oh, how about Amazon issuing a warning to abusers? Blocking all returns from accounts with a lot of churn? Closing accounts altogether? In short, the solutions they already have and use.

Yes, there are people like me that download the books to read on a different device.

Ah. And yet Amazon explicitly disallows this.

Spoiler:

Use of Kindle Content. Upon your download or access of Kindle Content and payment of any applicable fees (including applicable taxes), the Content Provider grants you a non-exclusive right to view, use, and display such Kindle Content an unlimited number of times (for Subscription Content, only as long as you remain an active member of the underlying membership or subscription program), solely through a Kindle Application or as otherwise permitted as part of the Service, solely on the number of Supported Devices specified in the Kindle Store, and solely for your personal, non-commercial use. Kindle Content is licensed, not sold, to you by the Content Provider. The Content Provider may include additional terms for use within its Kindle Content. Those terms will also apply, but this Agreement will govern in the event of a conflict. Some Kindle Content, such as interactive or highly formatted content, may not be available to you on all Kindle Applications.

Limitations. Unless specifically indicated otherwise, you may not sell, rent, lease, distribute, broadcast, sublicense, or otherwise assign any rights to the Kindle Content or any portion of it to any third party, and you may not remove or modify any proprietary notices or labels on the Kindle Content. In addition, you may not attempt to bypass, modify, defeat, or otherwise circumvent any digital rights management system or other content protection or features used as part of the Service.

Some more of that personal morality, but you’re unwilling to let others abide by the rules when you deem it wrong.

honest users

As opposed to dishonest users, who do something licitly and openly?

I would be willing to bet that few to no people that feel entitled to return these books have attempted to return an obviously read (or partially read) paper book simply because they did not enjoy the contents.

And now we’re back to “ebooks are exactly the same as paper books.” No, they aren’t. I won’t list every reason, but I’ll point out that no costs are involved in either delivering the ebook or accepting the return, nor has the ebook incurred physical costs of production.

Also noting “I would be willing to bet”, when somehow reasonable inferences by others have no weight and aren’t worth a response.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Doesn't it first need to be generally seen as a problem before there's a need for solutions? It seems to me that you're having a hard time accepting that you could just possibly be in the minority in thinking it's a problem.

Not really. It's just an interesting discussion. Eventualy it won't be. But for now...

Remember when you were willing to bet most of MR would be on board with seeing a 7-day return period on ebooks as a "problem"?

Yep. I guess I gave too much credit based on previous experiences.

To be clear, a 7-day return isn't the problem. I don't care if it is a day, a week, a month. But it is odd that they don't check to see if the book has been read by the customer when their policy sez accidental purchases are what is allowed to be returned.