Authors are protesting Amazon's 'read and return' e-book policy

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

But there is middle ground. Say, leave the return policy at 7 days or X% read, whichever comes first. That doesn't seem to be unreasonable at all.

.snoppted .)

Oops!

For example, if some chapters are missing no return may be allowed.l

[DNSB]

From my notes, I've returned 4 ebooks over the last decade+. One was purchased for my wife who found an ebook that used rein/reign/rain and several other homonym sets interchangeably, where the common punctuation marks were endangered species and run-on sentences were a way of life was unreadable after she forced herself to read the first 2 chapters. The other 3 were purchased for me, 1 was returned for egregious formatting errors, 1 was returned for having nothing to do with the supposed topic (a book with astronomy in it's title and then spends the entire book complaining that astrology is no longer a respected science) and the 4th was returned as a purchased in error (the author re-issued a 4 book series with new covers, new titles and an added short story to make these version 2's more palatable. 2 were purchased from Amazon, 2 were purchased from Kobo. Neither gave me any issues with the return though with the astrology book, the CSR did check the book and agreed it was mis-described and mislabelled.

The series book picked up an "Originally published as" after my complaint (likely due to a number of complaints not just mine but I'm willing to take the credit ).

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Yep, I have it turned it off for everything but if I could succeed in preventing its use for ebooks I wouldn't be able to buy ebooks.

How would disabling 1-click prevent you from being able to make ANY ebook purchases? I'm one of the many who strongly dislike that 1-click cannot be disabled for ebook purchases.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Oops!

For example, if some chapters are missing no return may be allowed.l

The current return window is 7 days. What if you only find the chapter is missing on day 8? No matter what the policy is, at some point the window will close.

And for an egregious issue like a missing chapter, you could likely reach out to customer service or something like that.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

The current return window is 7 days. What if you only find the chapter is missing on day 8? No matter what the policy is, at some point the window will close.

And for an egregious issue like a missing chapter, you could likely reach out to customer service or something like that.

In order to discover a missing chapter you may have to "read" more than %X so automatically disqualified.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

How would disabling 1-click prevent you from being able to make ANY ebook purchases? I'm one of the many who strongly dislike that 1-click cannot be disabled for ebook purchases.

Huh?

ebooks cannot be placed in the shopping basket so no one-click no purchase.

[Uncle Robin]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

Huh?

ebooks cannot be placed in the shopping basket so no one-click no purchase.

But that's the whole point - before Amazon enforced the automatic 1-Click on ebooks you COULD put them in the basket. It's that setup I and many others would like to see restored

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Yeah, 1-Click Purchase means books have to be returnable in some fashion. It's the attitude of 'I'll buy the book, read the book and if it isn't up to my standards I will return the book' that I'm arguing against. Sometimes you pick a dud. C'est la vie.

I honestly didn't expect anyone on this board to be supportive. Shows what I know.

Also, why not make the return policy for ebooks the same as it is for movies or music?

And why shouldn't buying a book on the Internet take place like in a bookstore?
I go in, sit in a corner and leaf through and read.
If I don't like the book, I put it back.
And there is a difference: literary works are finished products.
Music, theatre, etc. and films only become so through the performance.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

And why shouldn't buying a book on the Internet take place like in a bookstore?
I go in, sit in a corner and leaf through and read.
If I don't like the book, I put it back.

And hence the ability to download a sample of an ebook. This does run into the risk of downloading a sample where 50% of the sample is not relevant to the book unless you really care about a list of also by books, copyright notices, multiple table of contents, dedications, etc. A bit bitter since one recent sample had 20 pages of fluff before the epigraph, prologue and half the first chapter.

Originally Posted by ottischwenk

And there is a difference: literary works are finished products.
Music, theatre, etc. and films only become so through the performance.

I would disagree. A literary work whether physical or electronic must be read much as an audio-visual performance such as films, theatrical performances or music videos must be viewed or a audio performance such as music, spoken word or audiobooks must be listened to.

[Lykke]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

If an account abuses the ebook return policy, I suspect Amazon would take action. Up to and including closing the account.

Edit: I regret making this post as some might see it as instructions on how to game the return system. Anyway, bottom line: exploiting the return system is perfectly doable without getting your account suspended, if you figure out the rules. The most that will happen is that if the system detects gaming, you'll have to contact customer support to process the refund, who might then refuse to offer you future refunds.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

The ebook return policy doesn't only apply to self-published books.

And I enjoy an indie band out of Dallas called MOTORCADE. They are the equivalent to an indie author. Their music is for sale on Amazon using the same 'no returns on digital music' policy as Beyonce.

But with streaming, chances are you can find this band and play some of their music. Maybe on Youtube as well. So you have a much better chance of testing the band's music then you do an eBook from a self-published author. The thing is, I've read some books where the beginning was rubbish and it got better and ones that started of OK, but became lousy. But you don't know these things from a sample. You don't get to the parts were it gets lousy or good.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Yeah, 1-Click Purchase means books have to be returnable in some fashion. It's the attitude of 'I'll buy the book, read the book and if it isn't up to my standards I will return the book' that I'm arguing against. Sometimes you pick a dud. C'est la vie.

I honestly didn't expect anyone on this board to be supportive. Shows what I know.

Also, why not make the return policy for ebooks the same as it is for movies or music?

1-click for eBooks should be removed. It's too easy to accidentally buy an eBook you didn't mean to buy. I can turn off 1-click for other Amazon purchases. I don't want 1-click for any purchases from anyone.

[Deskisamess]

Originally Posted by Uncle Robin

But that's the whole point - before Amazon enforced the automatic 1-Click on ebooks you COULD put them in the basket. It's that setup I and many others would like to see restored

I don't recall ever being able to use the cart for kindle books. I got my first kindle in 2009.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by graycyn

You can still get scammed.

There is a trilogy I've loved, but the ebooks, while available in the UK, have not been available for sale in the US. So, I waited. Some good few years as it turned out. I didn't want to do anything untoward to acquire them. Then one day, I happened to search and there they were in the Kindle Store!

I had no reason to do a look inside or read reviews. I already knew I liked the books! So I bought. Only to find a year later, when I thought I'd break in my brand new Oasis 2 with a re-read of these books, that they were pirate copies and NO pleasure to read because of the numerous typos and errors.

Would that be the Mary Stewart Arthurian Legend books?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

But they are treated equally according to the return policy. You and others keep focusing on self-pubbed, but the return policy goes for all ebooks.

And it should. I borrowed a copy of Hyperion by Dan Simmons from the library some time ago when it first came out. It was an OCR with many many errors including some character names. Eventually, it did get fixed. But it never should have been released in such a state. If I had bought it, I would have wanted my money back.