How to read comfortably on a tablet

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by ApK

Wait, that was unsatisfying. Let me switch on Internet Arguing Mode:

[IAM]
What? Are you blind or just stupid?! I bet Hitler didn't think eink looked like paper either!
[/IAM]

That's more like it!

But seriously ... all the various electronic presentations of "books" look different enough to me from ink on paper to make any "more like real ink on paper" distinctions seem a little pointless. "Less absolutely different" would be the term I would probably use (if forced to use one) -- and I'd still have trouble declaring a clear "winner" even then.

Book paper is different than magazine paper is different then handwriting is different than laser printing is different than typesetting is different than reading under incandescents is different than reading under direct sunlight is different than LCD is different than eink is different than Garamond is different than Bookerly is different than audio books (is different than mp3 is different than wav/flac is different than speakers is different than headphones...).

"More Like" is different than "less different."

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by ApK

Hmm. Well, this can't get anywhere useful, but I'd bet you a case of Dr. Pepper that if we polled a 1000 people at random and showed them examples, MOST people would say eink looks very much like ink on paper.
[/IAM]

LCD looks more like paper if you use a background that looks like paper. I think Blossom has a background like that to use with Moon+.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by ApK

...Plus, Even if it were comfortable, I'd prefer not to jump through hoops re-configuring brightness and settings, using dimness apps, whatever...

But there are reading applications that allow one to set an essentially infinite range of colours for both "paper" and text, and for brightness (so one can mimic whatever E Ink screen one prefers-given that they are not all the same-if that is what is wanted). That is so for at least Windows small devices and it would be surprising if, given the far larger range of applications available for Android, Apple, etc. devices, such did not exist for them.

The setting persists between sessions so there is no need to jump through the hoops that you imagine exist.

Originally Posted by ApK

... Better to open the ereader and have it be perfect from the get-go...

In fact an E Ink screen will not "be perfect from the get-go..." as you claim. The quality of the display colours and contrast (such contrast as their is) is dependant on the colour, intensity and angle of incidence of the ambient light in the environment of the time.

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My personal take on the LCD is no good for reading compared to E Ink belief is that many are just repeating what they have heard from the chattering classes, are imagining it, or have tried it but do not know how to select and set up a reading application for best viewing (whereas E Ink is pretty much inflexible so makes no demands on knowledge to set up).

This is much like when computer mice first appeared and there was a flood of claims that they caused RSI, then "disputes" as to which was best between key strokes, mice and roller balls. In the end most everyone ended up using mice and there is no current epidemic of RSI because of it, it was all just in people's minds.

I suspect that as time goes on, especially as now young people who already spend their lives with their faces in LCD and AMOLED displays with no imagined physiological complaints become the predominant users of devices, E Ink will become a smaller and smaller proportion of displays used for reading. It is already facing difficulties as the ownership history of E Ink Corporation and its annual reports seem to show. Their annual reports are repetitive from year to year, a lot of words about future products and anticipated demand for them but no evidence that those claims are being realised in the market.

Now I do accept that there are some eye diseases that may make one display type or another easier for the user (likely because of contrast). But in that case the user should be in the care of evidence based medical care. If a difficulty is experienced with a display technology and one is not in such care it may, in my view, pay to get ones eyes checked out.

It is, of course, no issue to have a display preference, but the fact is that E Ink is becoming the preferred display of a reducing proportion of small devices used for reading users. For myself, I read on all of LCD, AMOLED and E Ink displays; the only reason I use an E Ink reader is that when I got it small devices around 6-7 inch in LCD or AMOLED were rare, when it dies it will be replaced with non-E Ink device of similar, or a little larger size and a reading application that gives me flexibility from both the ability to create the "black" on "white" in the purity levels I like, plus display images, should there be any, in that text in their true colours.

One of the repeated claims by E Ink proponents in threads such as this is that E Ink displays give black on white; in my view those making such claims are to be ignored because E Ink does not give black on white at all, it gives a very low contrast impure black on an impure white (all of which is dependant also on the colour of the ambient light at the time e.g. warm or cool temperature, and so out of the control of the user).

[leebase]

Ink on paper is just what we had - that does not mean it was the most optimal for reading. I think eInk AND tablets/smartphones both are far superior to reading on paper. I hate having to read a paper book now that there is a better experience to be had.

Changing the font size alone leaves paper in the dust. And it's not just one size...at times I want a smaller font and at times a larger.

I can change the margins...go from one column to too. Optimize for landscape or portrait.

Thank God I no longer have to deal with words running into the center of a thick book, or the hand cramps trying to hold them...or one side of a book casting shadows onto the other side.

It doesn't matter if I'm reading a cheap/free book or an expensive one...unlike my days as a child squinting to read the tiny text in cheap pulp paper of Westerns and SciFi.

If I underline, highlight my bible now - I don't lose them and have to start over time and against as I lose the bibles.

I could go on with even more...but all that I just mentioned are equally true of eInk and tablets. eInk has advantages (battery life, weight, bright sunlight reading, and no reflections) - but "being most like reading on paper" isn't even on my list of things to look for.

[ApK]

I disagree with just about every thing in there, AnotherCat, some in the facts and others in the conclusions you jump to.
Just to pull out one of the later category, while it's certainty true that more people choose and will continue their amoled phones to read on over eink, that says nothi g at all about the relative quality of the displays for reading, it could mean, for example, simply that they find amoled 'just barely good enough' to not have a dedicated second device however much 'better' it might be.
And I'm not sure what eye problem you are referring to, but if it exists, then whatever factors effect that condition could easily be perceived by healthier eyes and minds as mere undesirability.

[ApK]

Leebase, I certainly agree, I prefer many things about ereaders over paper, and I prefer somethings about paper: good hardcover bindings, gilded edges, etc.
Hopefully it's clear to everyone else that I'm talking specifically about the visual comfort of reading the text on the 'page' and not all the surrounding features.

[AnotherCat]

Originally Posted by ApK

I disagree with just about every thing in there, AnotherCat, some in the facts and others in the conclusions you jump to.
Just to pull out one of the later category, while it's certainty true that more people choose and will continue their amoled phones to read on over eink, that says nothi g at all about the relative quality of the displays for reading, it could mean, for example, simply that they find amoled 'just barely good enough' to not have a dedicated second device however much 'better' it might be...

You mention AMOLED as applying to phones; just for the sake of clarity in case your comments further mislead some, AMOLED displays are also available on tablets and are highly regarded by users (just as they are on phones and TVs).

It is also perhaps worth pointing out that AMOLED displays are not backlit; backlighting seeming to be a deficiency compared to E Ink in the minds of some; however, as has been pointed out, photons are photons, whether reflected or emitted.

[Katsunami]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

....the only reason I use an E Ink reader is that when I got it small devices around 6-7 inch in LCD or AMOLED were rare, when it dies it will be replaced with non-E Ink device of similar, or a little larger size and a reading application that gives me flexibility...

To be honest, I can't wait for the day I can do this, and it will arrive as soon as I can get an LCD/TFT/non E-ink device that can be read on a very bright day, as easily as e-ink, for at last a week. For me, that would be around 15 hours of battery life in those circumstances.

[Atunah]

I am with Apk on a lot of stuff here. Especially on the having to fiddle with this and that app, just to get decent reading experience on a tablet/phones. And yes, it is fiddling. Just ask Blossom how frustrated I get and how she has tried to help me out just being able to read in a reading app on my tablet/phone. I had to figure it out because of some stuff being epub so can't read on my kindle.

Something always has to be fiddled with and I can't get everything right. I tried about every reading app in the android store and I can't get any to work just right. Usually I can't find a font that works. The kindle app has the best fonts for me. I finally found pocket reader on my Fire lets me use the kindle font caecilia and a few others. But not on my phone. It also has the built in screen dimmer already so that is there. But long term reading?, Nope. Too much fiddling, light hurts my eyes and reflection in day and at night I have to turn the light so low I can't see the letters anymore.

My Voyage, I just pick up and read. Auto light and the letters are always on the top of the surface as close to reading a paperback as I can get. So for me much closer to paper than a tablet will ever be. My Fire6 is also heavier than my Voyage.

Its not just the light for me with prefering and really needing e-ink to read, its how the font looks. Its how its on top, how my eyes don't get hurt and glide over the words. Lots of reasons really.

Who knows what display options we might have in the future. But for now, e-ink is what my eyes and my brain needs for long reading sessions. It just is. Tablet displays just do not cut it for me and hurt. They just do.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by ApK

I'd prefer not to jump through hoops re-configuring brightness and settings, using dimness apps, whatever. Better to open the ereader and have it be perfect from the get-go.

And there are plenty who are fine just opening an app and reading without fiddling with things, just as there are plenty of folks who feel the need to jump through hoops and hack their eInk readers to be able to read comfortably on it (and redo those hacks with each firmware release). Nothing wrong with either.
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Personally I can pick up whatever (Kobo Aura HD, Kindle Touch, Fire HDX, Nexus 7, iPhone, Laptop, etc) and read on them just fine. Yes each has been initially configured, but once set I find little need to change anything. Doesn't mean that's the same for everyone. I don't know why some seem unable to accept that their favorite way of reading isn't the only way (that goes for both "sides" of things).

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

LCD looks more like paper if you use a background that looks like paper. I think Blossom has a background like that to use with Moon+.

I sure do! If you turn the brightness down enough it can look just like a real book.

You can't tell it's backlit except for the glass screen when reading.

[silverraven]

Originally Posted by Blossom

I sure do! If you turn the brightness down enough it can look just like a real book.

You can't tell it's backlit except for the glass screen when reading.

That looks great!
Will this work on the $50 Kindle Fire? And if so, will you enlighten us as to how exactly? For all of us tablet n00bies. Even with the light turned down as far as it will go it is still bright for my eyes. I'm sure I'm just missing something.
Thanks!
S

[leebase]

I haven't solved it yet, but I agree that the Amazon Fire 7" is still fairly bright even with the light all the way down. One solution is to have your room brighter as it's the difference that gets to your eyes.

On my iPad I have Marvin which has a lot of choices for background color and font color allowing me to find a suitable contrast level. Simply having white text on black background can still be quite hard on the eyes.

Here are 4 android apps for dimming the screen: https://www.maketecheasier.com/scree...-android-apps/

Haven't tried them yet

[ApK]

Originally Posted by AnotherCat

It is also perhaps worth pointing out that AMOLED displays are not backlit; backlighting seeming to be a deficiency compared to E Ink in the minds of some; however, as has been pointed out, photons are photons, whether reflected or emitted.

AMOLED is awesome, and while it's technically not "backlit" (it's "self-lit") it still producing it's own direct light of a quality totally different than that what you get reflected back to your eye off a physical page, or opaque eink display.

And, I'm sorry, that "photons is photons" line is utter nonsense on every level from quantum field theory up to the more practical.
You might as well says protons electrons and neutrons are all protons electrons and neutrons, so breathing oxygen is no different than breathing plutonium.
But there's really no need for analogy to make the nonsense plain to see: Gamma rays are different than microwaves are different than violet light are different than red light, and they are all made of photons.
And even in light of the same frequency (or frequency mix--white light from the sun has very different effects on people's eyes and brains than does white light from florescent office lights.) the way those photon mix, interact, scatter, reflect, the direction they hit and off of what material or surface all effect how are eyes and brains perceive them, A photograph take with a harsh flash looks very different than when that same photo is taken with a softbox in front of the flash, even if the "total number of photons" is the same.

So can we please stop that nonsense?
Or do you think a print of El Captain by Ansel Adams is indistinguishable from every vacation snapshot captured on a tourist's iPhone and posted to instagram?

Originally Posted by Blossom

You can't tell it's backlit except for the glass screen when reading.

That's a gorgeous background, but that glossy glass screen is hard to ignore when reading every line, every word, and I'm sure that's a factor, perhaps as much as is the emitted light quality. Reading that page on my phone, I was distracted my all the reflections in the glass.

Something might look hyper-realistic in a photo or video, when you site staring it for hours at 20" away or what ever, you see the differences, and they may or may not be pleasant to the experience.

The same screen that makes videos and photos pop gorgeously and make a windows on another world does not necessary make the best reading surface, which maybe why most book paper is matte, not super glossy.

Oddly, for me, that deep "blacker than black" ultra sharp text on my AMOLED screen looks...wrong. Perhaps it's the same way that ultra high def video productions sometimes look wrong to people used to grainy 35mm movies, Maybe I'd eventually get used to it, or even prefer it, but I'm content to enjoying the life-long familiarity of what text on a page should like, which is what a good eink device gives me.

For the record, I prefer my K3 in good room light, daylight, or with a good book light over my PaperWhite, as well. The quality of light is important.

I hope there will eventually be a display technology that does it all as well as specialized displays currently do their tasks.
But there isn't currently, even if some people find theirs do it all well enough.

[Atunah]

Blossom always has her stuff looking nice.

But for someone like me, I don't know how to add back rounds, I don't know how to add fonts and even where to get that stuff. That is what I mean by fiddling. I don't have those skills. Getting a dimming app is easier, but still isn't anything like e-ink easy on eyes to me.