iLiad V2 screen

[Mr. Goodbar]

It might be a bit of a paradigm shift on my part, but I don't see me being able to keep the unit on while pack up in by briefcase. I would expect buttons to get pressed quite frequently. You're right in that you can get a full day out of it so you might be convincing me it's less of an issue than I thought for some people

[orcinus]

You can lock the buttons

[daudi]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

It might be a bit of a paradigm shift on my part, but I don't see me being able to keep the unit on while pack up in by briefcase. I would expect buttons to get pressed quite frequently. You're right in that you can get a full day out of it so you might be convincing me it's less of an issue than I thought for some people

You're right about the paradigm shift. As Orcinus said you can lock the buttons. However, I have been doing this for a while (just leaving it on, even in the case, and connecting to the power supply whenever it is just sitting in the office or at home) and I still feel strange about doing it this way even though it works well. It feels wrong for some reason. I think it must result from years of always shutting things down, or at least suspending them, before putting them away (laptop, mp3 player, etc.)

[orcinus]

iRex should've implemented screen blanking along with the keylock. That would've helped a lot of people adjust a great deal

[axel77]

Leaving it on all day, while not using it, just puts unnecessary strain on the battery. If this means running the batterly every day low down to 20,10 or even 0%. It will likely to be completly defective after say, one and a half year?

[Mr. Goodbar]

My biggest hangup was not realizing you could lock the buttons. Not sure how I missed that one in all this time. There are still aspects of the Sony implementation that I much prefer. For example, given the on all day scenario with the iLiad, I would have a low battery at the end of the day with the iLiad and a full battery with the Sony. Just one of the differences and much of this is personal preference anyway.

[orcinus]

Originally Posted by axel77

Leaving it on all day, while not using it, just puts unnecessary strain on the battery. If this means running the batterly every day low down to 20,10 or even 0%. It will likely to be completly defective after say, one and a half year?

Re-read what's been written... No one said anything about leaving it on 24 (or even 12) hours a day. Besides, there's no point in sparing the battery from what it was made for (i.e. discharging). Otherwise we'd all be leaving our devices plugged in 24/7

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

There are still aspects of the Sony implementation that I much prefer.

There are aspects of Sony i prefer too, but for different usage patterns. I use Sony for casual fiction reading and holidays, simply because i don't have to worry about recharging it for a month at a time and its much more robust than iLiad (so i can basically treat it like any other hard cover or paperback). Also, it's smaller, so it fits pockets better

[axel77]

Originally Posted by orcinus

Re-read what's been written... No one said anything about leaving it on 24 (or even 12) hours a day. Besides, there's no point in sparing the battery from what it was made for (i.e. discharging). Otherwise we'd all be leaving our devices plugged in 24/7

Also you re-read whats been written (in the other threads), you battery has a lifetime of aprox. 500 full-charges cycles, but much more if not full uncharge/recharges. So yes, if you can save your battery from be drawn out completely uselessly go for that. Otherwise the device will be defective in one and a half years. Or soon have a much smaller charge capacity.

So if you don't read at the moment, turn it off when not plugged in, if you want to have a loooong time until you need to send it to eindhoven for a battery exchange.

[orcinus]

"Lifetime" is actually a pretty "soft" limit. Lithium ion batteries (actually, any battery) don't just "die" after they reach the magical number. It's a limit after which capacity drops perceptibly, i.e. anywhere between 75 and 90% of the original, specified one (varies from manufacturer to manufacturer).

Just FYI, batteries don't have an exact nominal capacity either. It varies up and down from 10-15% from one sample to another and from one batch to another.

Also FYI, Lithium Ion batteries have internal electronics that prevent them from ever discharging fully (because, unlike NiCd and NiMH, they don't have an internal electrochemical "safe-guard" that would prevent them from "discharging to death"), so a "full-charge cycle" is something you can't EVER reproduce on a consumer device. Unless you dismantle it, take the battery out, dismantle the cells and drain them with a resistor.

According to you, people should switch their devices (whatever they are) the moment they stop using them, and plug them in. My question is - what's the point of having a battery then? A simple capacitor would surely suffice

[orcinus]

Oh, yeah, one more thing. A trick question.

What do you think: will a Li-Ion battery be healthier after:
a) 500 100% discharge-charge cycles,
b) 1000 50% discharge-charge cycles, or
c) either?

The answer is, for all intents and purposes - c.
Why? Because, while it's true Li-Ion batteries don't "like" being kept discharged below 50%, that statement is valid for prolonged periods of time, not casual use. They shouldn't be kept stored in semi-discharged or discharged state, not discharged below 50% during normal operation.


To sum things up, it doesn't matter which way you go - the total amount of charge (electrons, ampere-hours, coulombs) received and discharged during a lifetime is what makes a battery age, not the depth of the cycle. At least that's the way things work with modern batteries and modern charging electronics.

PS: Just by the way, i still don't understand what all this has to do with the discussion at hand, because no one ever suggested discharging the battery all the way or keeping the iLiad on continuously, for a full battery discharge cycle.

[axel77]

There are several not so right statement in this. So for reference this:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Originally Posted by orcinus

Oh, yeah, one more thing. A trick question.

What do you think: will a Li-Ion battery be healthier after:
a) 500 100% discharge-charge cycles,
b) 1000 50% discharge-charge cycles, or
c) either?

The answer is, for all intents and purposes - c.

Wrong, it will be healthier afer b).

While 2-times 30% may equal to 1-time 60%, 100% is sure an additional stress factor.

Why? Because, while it's true Li-Ion batteries don't "like" being kept discharged below 50%, that statement is valid for prolonged periods of time, not casual use. They shouldn't be kept stored in semi-discharged or discharged state, not discharged below 50% during normal operation.

This is wrong, its is adviced to be held at 40% chargelevel if stored for a prolonged time.

To sum things up, it doesn't matter which way you go - the total amount of charge (electrons, ampere-hours, coulombs) received and discharged during a lifetime is what makes a battery age, not the depth of the cycle. At least that's the way things work with modern batteries and modern charging electronics.

Wrong, a lot of conditions affect the longlivity of the battery. As you can see some factors are temperature, discharge rates, discharge level, charge rate and charge level. They just don't have a "memory effect", like the Ni-Ca batteries.

PS: Just by the way, i still don't understand what all this has to do with the discussion at hand, because no one ever suggested discharging the battery all the way or keeping the iLiad on continuously, for a full battery discharge cycle.

Well it has been suggesting leaving the device on during the day, while you are not using it, to save boot time. Yes you save boot time, but you will lose lifetime of the battery. Its your device, its your decision, just be careful what you advice others to do with their devices.

Now independand if 2 50% charges are exactly the same as 1 100% charge or not. Using up your battery for nothing but saving 40 seconds of booting might not be a good idea, if you don't want to send in your iLiad after 2 years of use, or have to open it yourself to exchange the battery.

[orcinus]

The data you're referring to concerns "naked" lithium-ion cells. You're missing one important factor, and that's the electronics built into consumer batteries (like the one used by iLiad).

Also, you're completely missing the fact that, as an end user, you're never even using the batteries full capacity (or charge "depth"), but about 10-15% less. That's a safety limit imposed by the charging electronics and the electronics in the battery itself. I've actually seen (and charged) Li-Poly and Li-Ion batteries used in much harsher "charging environments" (rc models) and things most definitely aren't the way you're trying to present them or the way popular myths portrait them (i.e. discharge to <25% is "deep" discharge, "deep" discharge is bad, don't discharge your batteries too much or they will die before their time).

Regarding "lots of conditions", please read the post again and notice i wrote "for all intents and purposes". Meaning "in average conditions" and "ceteris paribus".

Finally, i suggest you do some less limited reading on the subject, like McGraw Hill's excellent Handbook of Batteries, instead of partial quotes from batteryuniversity.com.

...

And, again, i fail to see the relevance to the subject at hand
No one ever said you should keep iLiad "on during the day" (again, re-read the posts).

[axel77]

You aren't doing well with peoples are you?

I mean there are other ways to tell somebody you """complety missed a fact""", while I know that there is protection limits build in :/. Its even mentioned at that reference. And built it protection or not, stuff you wrote about ideal storage capabity was for example wrong. The protection will halt at aprox. 10% percent, but the danger is self discharge after that, if you store it with 10% in say a closed car in summer, once it reaches absolute zero, the battery is history.

And I *did* read the thread. Believe it or not mr. arrogant

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=30

You advise people "for the sack of the argument" to keep the iLiad running everyday 8 hours on battery without even using it.

I wouldn't advise it, and every user for himself to decide if the 40 seconds boot are worth for him the reduced lifetime. Argue what you want on how much and how much isn't, but lifetime *is* reduced.

Whatever the argument is, you might get your tone a bit more leveled... I have my problems with this, not only to me, you did the same with other posters in this very thread.

[orcinus]

Originally Posted by axel77

You advise people "for the sack of the argument" to keep the iLiad running everyday 8 hours on battery without even using it.

Where exactly did i write that?
And thanks for name calling. Really helps slam your point...

Originally Posted by axel77

Whatever the argument is, you might get your tone a bit more leveled... I have my problems with this, not only to me, you did the same with other posters in this very thread.

I have a problem with people twisting other people's words. Yet i don't resort to name calling

Regardless... Your advice seems to be - switch off the device the moment iLiad leaves your hand (see, i can twist words too). My advice is - don't get obsessed about conserving battery power and life, because there's plenty of it for a more "comfortable" mode of use. Everything else is just, well, fog.

[axel77]

Originally Posted by orcinus

Where exactly did i write that?
And thanks for name calling. Really helps slam your point...

Well its at least honest and you wrote that "in the sake of the argument" where I linked to. 24 hours a day, 8 hours sleep, 8 hours work, 8 hours using the iLiad "for the sake of the argument".

I have a problem with people twisting other people's words. Yet i don't resort to name calling

I'm not twisting. Altough you don't "resort" to name calling, you use more passive agressive tools. There is a for example a huge difference between "you might have missed that", and "you completely missed the fact"... this goes on more than once. Or example the first reply starting with "reread what been written" instead of "well we have not said to use it more than" or whatever. Plently of hidden agression along the way, don't be surprised if people pick it up, and then at leastly honestly do some name calling. Its worse when you consider yourself to be superior because you "aggress" more secretly/hidden.

Regardless... Your advice seems to be - switch off the device the moment iLiad leaves your hand (see, i can twist words too). My advice is - don't get obsessed about conserving battery power and life, because there's plenty of it for a more "comfortable" mode of use. Everything else is just, well, fog.

If you put the device in your satchel, and don't plan to read in the next half an hour. Turn it off.,

I had such a great link about passive agressive internet discussions, howver I cannot find it now :/ Its really a hilarious read.