Copyright is Out of Sight

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

Undead.

Btw, it's easy to get rid of zombies, you just gotta deprive them of fresh new brains. Then they canibalize themselves until it's no fun anymore.

Works for trolls too.

Yes, but you should know that we trolls can live off our own bullsht for up to two weeks.

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Oh Yeah. That's modus operandi for these discussions. No one every changes their minds we just do a lot of shouting back and forth, three or four rounds and we drop it

Oh yeah. Completely true.

Originally Posted by kennyc

until the next young eyes-full-of-stars-with-no-understanding-of-how-the-world-really-works newbie comes along and starts a new thread.

or the next pigheaded-conservative-redneck-I-mistakenly-believe-I-have-an-understanding-of-how-the-world-really-works-and-I'm-going-to-make-you-see-it-with-my-big-stick comes along...
And btw even though you're obviously referring to the OP, I'm not directly referring to you (just so you don't go off on a self-defensive rant).

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

I was also wrong about this thread. I called it a zombie thread, when in fact this thread has developed a life of its own. It's alive. It's alive!

No, I think it's just rotten and full of parazites who live off it...

[wyndslash]

what are we talking about now? :O

[spellbanisher]

Kennyc is too wise and all-knowing to stoop to a self-defensive rant. He'll simply decree you a know-nothing teenager and return to his divine task of carving the unchanging laws of the universe on stone tablets.

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos

or the next pigheaded-conservative-redneck-I-mistakenly-believe-I-have-an-understanding-of-how-the-world-really-works-and-I'm-going-to-make-you-see-it-with-my-big-stick comes along...

Liberals are just as self-righteous and all knowing as conservatives. But that's okay because they are right.

And what's with all this shouting and anger. This was supposed to be a happy thread about..? Well, I'll remember later.

[Namekuseijin]

I think coffee should be free. Think about it.

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

A bit over the top enkidu in comparing support for copyright to Nazism.

I knew someone would misunderstand, so I added the other sentence to stop that (but obviously it wasn't enough).
I wasn't saying copyright proponents were exactly like the Nazis, or as bad as them, I was comparing their situations. Both were the majority in their time and place (and the former still are). And my point was that being in the majority doesn't make one right (regardless of your opinions of Nazis and copyright proponents) and the Nazis were an excellent example because they were both in the majority and very wrong.
Comparing someone to something bad doesn't have to be saying both are bad, for example I'll compare myself with Hitler - we both have a mustache.

Originally Posted by kennyc

Godwin's Law...

Nope, sorry but that's wrong in this case. Godwin's Law applies to people who equate their opponents in an argument with nazis because they're too stupid and uncreative to find a good argument instead.
As I explained above, I didn't equate copyright proponents with Nazis but merely compared their situations (being in the majority, as are quadripedal mammals too).
And I am intelligent enough to fight with arguments instead of insults (unlike some here who have already resorted to calling people whining communist teens...).

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

Anways, enkidu's right. If their had been dissenters in 30's Germany there would have been no holocaust and no second world war. Its not like hitler would have executed the dissenters or anything like that.

Actually there were, and he would, and he did.

For example read up on Hans and Sophie Scholl (brother and sister) and the other members of the White Rose who were promptly executed by the Gestapo after naively thinking they could bring down the III. Reich with liberalist leaflets.
But you misunderstood me, I meant that if the majority had been anti-Nazi then the shit wouldn't have hit the fan like it did.
There was an anti-Nazi minority (those who didn't wholeheartedly agree with the government), and an even smaller (insignificantly small) proactive anti-Nazi minority (those who actively tried to oppose nazism) but they just weren't numerous enough to turn the tide.

[spellbanisher]

I know there were dissenters in Germany. What I wrote was just a quip. And when you said "If only there were dissenters in Germany 80 years ago" the implication was that copyright is clearly a wrong or bad institution that is only supported because of a mob mentality. The part of it being a mob mentality is probably true; supporters of copyright seem incapable of thinking critically or with historical perspective about copyright. It's like copyright is some unassailable and perfect institution handed down from God and even the contemplation of modifying the current regime is unfathomable and unconscionable and those who diverge from the established opinion are self-centered ignorant teenagers or deluded marxists. Still, the self-righteousness of your post irked me.

[carld]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

It's like copyright is some unassailable and perfect institution handed down from God and even the contemplation of modifying the current regime is unfathomable and unconscionable and those who diverge from the established opinion are self-centered ignorant teenagers or deluded marxists.

Actually it's more that I've found the posts from anti-copyright folks to be completely without worth, utterly unreasonable and really no more than variations of "It's easy to copy, and I don't want to pay for it." With an added "If that means authors can't make a living then tough sh*t."

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Look guys, I think this reading-typing-posting-reading-typing-posting cycle is just too slow, inefficient, and time consuming for a long drawn-out debate.
The solution - I suggest we all meet in person and sit down and have a nice long friendly chat. So you all come over right now to my place, my address is Odeska 15, location right here : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=4...87547&t=h&z=14
We'll have some chocolate cookies (the kind covered with chocolate on one side, not mixed with chocolate chips) and a couple of drinks (I have wines and vodkas, but I suggest a nice home-made traditional plum-based alcoholic drink), just keep in mind it's 02:00 AM here, so when we have our customary drunken singalong keep it quiet, so the neighbours won't have the police crash our party, OK ?

[spellbanisher]

Originally Posted by carld

Actually it's more that I've found the posts from anti-copyright folks to be completely without worth, utterly unreasonable and really no more than variations of "It's easy to copy, and I don't want to pay for it." With an added "If that means authors can't make a living then tough sh*t."

Then you really haven't been paying attention, because there have been arguments from many sides about copyright. You have decided that all those who don't share your view on copyright are all the same, and you only see what your preconceived notions and beliefs let you see.

[carld]

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

Then you really haven't been paying attention, because there have been arguments from many sides about copyright. You have decided that all those who don't share your view on copyright are all the same, and you only see what your preconceived notions and beliefs let you see.

Please don't tell me what I've decided and what I haven't. I stand by what I said. I've been participating in these threads for years, and I've yet to see a cogent, thoughtful and considerate post by the anti-copyright posters. Hell, I left the forum for a year because anti-copyright posters were following me around and insulting every post I made.

[Enkidu of Abydos]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Creators have the right to sell, but the user has the right to share and possibly even resell.

While I've agreed with much of what you've said so far I must strongly disagree here.
In my view using or copying a copyrighted file of the Internet which you wouldn't have payed for anyway is neither theft nor immoral (unless you also destroy all other copies worldwide and deprive the author of his work) but selling someone else's work for profit (which belongs to the author) is certainly immoral.
I'd never claim someone else's work as mine nor sell it.

P.S.
Has anyone here yet considered that Giggleton may just be an anti-copyright troll taking an extremely liberal position just to provoke people and maybe show how stupid and un-thought-through copyright opponents are ?

Originally Posted by carld

I've been participating in these threads for years, and I've yet to see a cogent, thoughtful and considerate post by the anti-copyright posters.

I have, in just a few days. Search this thread.
And in fact I don't think the OP has insulted anyone yet, besides being a utopian hippi.

Originally Posted by carld

Hell, I left the forum for a year because anti-copyright posters were following me around and insulting every post I made.

I'm sorry for your bad experiences with idiots, but not every copyright opponent is one.

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by Enkidu of Abydos

Look guys, I think this reading-typing-posting-reading-typing-posting cycle is just too slow, inefficient, and time consuming for a long drawn-out debate.
The solution - I suggest we all meet in person and sit down and have a nice long friendly chat. So you all come over right now to my place, my address is Odeska 15, location right here : http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=4...87547&t=h&z=14
We'll have some chocolate cookies (the kind covered with chocolate on one side, not mixed with chocolate chips) and a couple of drinks (I have wines and vodkas, but I suggest a nice home-made traditional plum-based alcoholic drink), just keep in mind it's 02:00 AM here, so when we have our customary drunken singalong keep it quiet, so the neighbours won't have the police crash our party, OK ?

are you ploying something like a liberal Boston Tea Party?