Sigil 1.4.3 - Validation Not Catching Errors Now - Page 2

exaltedwombat · 02-02-2021, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Remind me where I called it a "work in progress"?

In the 4th message in its thread in Sigil/Plugins. Admittedly some time ago. Prompted by someone else having been indelicate enough to compare it with Calibre

DiapDealer · 02-02-2021, 08:01 PM

Jon's not indelicate, he's a broken record.

Notjohn · 02-05-2021, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinH

Both are completely free.

And they work! I am generally clueless about this stuff, but even I found it a no-brainer to install Flight Crew.

lisashea · 02-05-2021, 02:42 PM

Thank you all so much for the suggestions! I will definitely install the plugin and work with that.

I am a strong proponent of using styles and do use them for everything. In the instances I'm running up against, even with my styles, I'm not sure that there's any way for me to undo the way Word creates a filtered HTML file to have it stop doing those specific things. For example on the links Word is adding code for the color of the regular link and for the visited link. I can certainly set a color for both of those things - but I don't think I can instruct Word not to have ANY color at all for those two values. I think it's always going to have some sort of a value it sets which I then need to strip out.

Does someone know of a way to tell Word not to have any link and vlink color setting used when exporting a filtered HTML?

Also, in a variety of places Word will insert:

 


I'm definitely not instructing the "clear=all" setting, but that gets choked on by EPUB systems. So I have to strip that out.

On the third set of challenges, the "Picture 1" and "Picture 2" and so on default tags for images, sure, I could go through every single image in the entire document and give them ALT settings. I'm just not up for that task. I have hundreds of books. Some of my books have hundreds of images for various reasons and it would take more time than it's worth. It's easier just to remove that space.

JSWolf · 02-05-2021, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notjohn

And they work! I am generally clueless about this stuff, but even I found it a no-brainer to install Flight Crew.

The epubcheck plugin should also be installed.

DiapDealer · 02-05-2021, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The epubcheck plugin should also be installed.

Yeah. That was already mentioned.

exaltedwombat · 02-05-2021, 04:28 PM

@lisashea. Before we look at your specifics, I suggest you try a direct transfer from DOCX to EPUB. Leave out the Filtered HTML stage.

Consider leaving pictures until you reach Sigil. On an EPUB reader if a picture matters it's very often best to give it full screen width and very likely a page to itself. Not like designing for a known page size on paper. After all, the aim is to produce an effective eBook, not a poor facsimile of a paper book, isn't it?

lisashea · 02-05-2021, 09:45 PM

In terms of images, my process is that I work from one base Word document. I export a PDF and make a paperback out of it. I export a filtered HTML and make an ebook out of it. I lay out the images so they are always inline and big enough to work for the ebook version.

I definitely don't want to be removing or inserting all of those images every single time I revise a book.

For example, I have 13 books in my recipes series. I revise all 13 every year. Each can have quite a lot of images in it. So on each year's regeneration I do a pass through to check the metabolism / health research to make sure it's fully up to date. I add a few more recipes. Then I generate a fresh paperback and ebook. If I had to start from scratch every single time and add in images to the print version and then add in images to the ebook version it would take me weeks per book. I'm not sure that would be for any tangible better result.

Tex2002ans · 02-06-2021, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisashea

Thank you all so much for the suggestions! I will definitely install the plugin and work with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisashea

I am a strong proponent of using styles and do use them for everything.

Absolutely fantastic news. Welcome to the 1%! (Rarely anyone even uses Styles.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisashea

In the instances I'm running up against, even with my styles, I'm not sure that there's any way for me to undo the way Word creates a filtered HTML file to have it stop doing those specific things.

Yep, like exaltedwombat said, that bad code is a Word "Filtered HTML" problem.

So your current method is this:

DOCX -> Save As "Filtered HTML" -> Calibre (convert to EPUB)

What is more effective is directly going:

DOCX -> EPUB

skipping Word's crappy HTML code!

- - -

The tool I personally use all the time is:

Toxaris's "EPUB Tools"

It exports extremely clean HTML: basic , , <h1>, [...]:

Code:

<h2>The Beginning</h2>
<p>It was a dark and stormy night...</p>

So all that other clear="all" + other Word junk won't even make it into your EPUB file!

You can even set EPUB Tools to carry over your Styles -> CSS.

So if your chapters use a special "chaptertitle" style, it'll appear in your EPUB as:

Code:

<h2 class="chaptertitle">The Beginning</h2>

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisashea

On the third set of challenges, the "Picture 1" and "Picture 2" and so on default tags for images, sure, I could go through every single image in the entire document and give them ALT settings. I'm just not up for that task. I have hundreds of books. Some of my books have hundreds of images for various reasons and it would take more time than it's worth. It's easier just to remove that space.

Well, definitely think about assigning proper alt text for current/future books.

It's extremely important for Accessibility, especially in ebooks (Text-to-Speech is just one use-case).

Proper Alt Tags

If the alt is useless gibberish:

Code:

<img alt="Picture 123" src="../Images/bullfrog.jpg" />
<img alt="img1234" src="../Images/img1234.jpg" />

it's better to strip it blank:

Code:

<img alt="" src="../Images/bullfrog.jpg" />
<img alt="" src="../Images/img1234.jpg" />

- - -

Side Note: A helpful Regex to do this in Sigil is:

Search: alt="[^"]+"
Replace: alt=""

- - -

But it's even better to write useful text (and filenames!) in the first place:

Code:

<img alt="Bullfrog jumping out of a pond." src="../Images/jumping.bullfrog.jpg" />
<img alt="A beautiful lemon meringue pie with a cherry on top." src="../Images/lemon.meringue.pie.jpg" />

This means Text-to-Speech will actually tell a blind reader WHAT'S in the photo:

"A beautiful lemon meringue pie with a cherry on top."

Where the original version would tell them:

"img1234"

Creating Alt Text

I think newest versions of Word 365 have also made it easier to assign alt text to your images:

And here is an accessibility site also explaining how/why to create good alt text:

WebAIM: "Alternative Text"

Checking/Fixing Accessibility

Another fantastic Sigil plugin is Access-Aide, by KevinH.

This helps create more accessible books by:

Doing a lot of boring gruntwork for you
Listing all the alt tags in the book
[...].

- - -

I've also written extensively about "Accessibility in ebooks" over the years.

Here's one example in 2018 where I explained why it's important to mark the book's language properly + create good <title>s in your HTML:

Post #2+ in "Two Questions"

Sure sure, physical/printed books: "Who cares if my English book is accidentally 'French', nobody will know!"

But open that ebook on your phone, put it down while you're cooking, and all of a sudden Text-to-Speech is speaking everything with funny accents!

Then your hands are full of flour, you're trying to wash them as quickly as possible to turn the thing off... you turn around, and there's crème brûlée and croissants exploding out of the oven!

exaltedwombat · 02-06-2021, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lisashea

I definitely don't want to be removing or inserting all of those images every single time I revise a book.

Fair enough. Your special requirement (which you've just revealed) for yearly revisions is also an issue.

Though I've never had a conversion that didn't require SOME adjustment of image positioning.

You really can get rid of the Filtered HTML stage. I know this was an advised method some years ago, but the tools have moved on. DOCX seems a superior source than DOC. Direct conversion by Calibre has vastly improved - though it's still capable of spewing out code with a separate tag for each syllable if fed messy enough input!

Notjohn · 02-09-2021, 01:32 PM

There used to be a reason to export or save as filtered html for Kindle editions, something I believe had to do with the display of images in Mac OS, but that problems was fixed and the reason is now moot. So there's really no reason to do it. I use a third-party software to clean up Word's html before I open it in Sigil.

02-05-2021, 02:42 PM	#19
lisashea Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: none	Thank you all so much for the suggestions! I will definitely install the plugin and work with that. I am a strong proponent of using styles and do use them for everything. In the instances I'm running up against, even with my styles, I'm not sure that there's any way for me to undo the way Word creates a filtered HTML file to have it stop doing those specific things. For example on the links Word is adding code for the color of the regular link and for the visited link. I can certainly set a color for both of those things - but I don't think I can instruct Word not to have ANY color at all for those two values. I think it's always going to have some sort of a value it sets which I then need to strip out. Does someone know of a way to tell Word not to have any link and vlink color setting used when exporting a filtered HTML? Also, in a variety of places Word will insert: <span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif'><br clear=all style='page-break-before:always'> </span> I'm definitely not instructing the "clear=all" setting, but that gets choked on by EPUB systems. So I have to strip that out. On the third set of challenges, the "Picture 1" and "Picture 2" and so on default tags for images, sure, I could go through every single image in the entire document and give them ALT settings. I'm just not up for that task. I have hundreds of books. Some of my books have hundreds of images for various reasons and it would take more time than it's worth. It's easier just to remove that space.

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02-02-2021, 08:01 PM	#17
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,574 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Jon's not indelicate, he's a broken record.

02-05-2021, 04:28 PM	#22
exaltedwombat Guru Posts: 878 Karma: 2457540 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: none	@lisashea. Before we look at your specifics, I suggest you try a direct transfer from DOCX to EPUB. Leave out the Filtered HTML stage. Consider leaving pictures until you reach Sigil. On an EPUB reader if a picture matters it's very often best to give it full screen width and very likely a page to itself. Not like designing for a known page size on paper. After all, the aim is to produce an effective eBook, not a poor facsimile of a paper book, isn't it?

02-05-2021, 09:45 PM	#23
lisashea Junior Member Posts: 5 Karma: 10 Join Date: Nov 2011 Device: none	In terms of images, my process is that I work from one base Word document. I export a PDF and make a paperback out of it. I export a filtered HTML and make an ebook out of it. I lay out the images so they are always inline and big enough to work for the ebook version. I definitely don't want to be removing or inserting all of those images every single time I revise a book. For example, I have 13 books in my recipes series. I revise all 13 every year. Each can have quite a lot of images in it. So on each year's regeneration I do a pass through to check the metabolism / health research to make sure it's fully up to date. I add a few more recipes. Then I generate a fresh paperback and ebook. If I had to start from scratch every single time and add in images to the print version and then add in images to the ebook version it would take me weeks per book. I'm not sure that would be for any tangible better result.

02-09-2021, 01:32 PM	#26
Notjohn mostly an observer Posts: 1,519 Karma: 987654 Join Date: Dec 2012 Device: Kindle	There used to be a reason to export or save as filtered html for Kindle editions, something I believe had to do with the display of images in Mac OS, but that problems was fixed and the reason is now moot. So there's really no reason to do it. I use a third-party software to clean up Word's html before I open it in Sigil.

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