I have finally conquered the odyssey of Ulysses! ...I think, anyway

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by rkomar

I...I was much more impressed about the finishing of Joyce's book, since I couldn't get past about four pages when I tried long ago.

That's my approach the half-dozen times I've tried....same with Neuromancer and any of the more recent Neil Stephenson books....

[GeoffC]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who immediately thought of the Greek story, and not the one about an stroll around an Irish City

I must admit I read it a few years ago - some parts had to be skipped for my sanity, but otherwise I enjoyed it. What was it about again !

[hidari]

Well done....what is next????

War and Peace

Gravity's Rainbow

Don Quixote

The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman

keep up the pain...... or the pleasure.....

Originally Posted by sun surfer

After all, can it ever really be conquered by the likes of mere mortals?

But, I read every word even if I didn't understand it all, so that counts well enough, right?

To put things into perspective, I've been attempting to read this book, off and on, for over 15 years. I've tried all kinds of ways of reading it. My last attempt, last year, I bought Ulysses Annotated as well, which is a separate book of annotations about as long as the book itself. I actually made it a good ways through, and it was the first time I even halfway understood what was going on. And not only halfway; with the detailed annotations on almost every line I understood everything that I'd read. Trust me, everything.

But, it also meant that I had to go back and forth between the two books every line, and so a book that was already a very slow read became an extremely extremely slow and laborious read. So, I gave it up.

This year I was (again) determined to tackle this book, and this time my motto was to head-butt my way through it like a ram. No annotations to help me, and even unlike other books I read, I wouldn't even look up dictionary words or sometimes google or wikipedia something. None of that. I started from the beginning again, so I already understood a good ways into it, but when I made my way into uncharted territories things got trippy. I did resort to short chapter summaries online after I read a chapter, so I could at least sort-of understand what the chapter was supposed to be about. That came in handy for one or two chapters where I had almost no idea what I was reading until I read the summary of it at the end.

And so, did I hate it? Not at all! Actually, I loved it! Certainly there's a lot I didn't understand, and I didn't like how vulgar it became at times in the some of the last chapters, and some chapters I was not a fan of at all, but I really, really loved it overall. It's a masterpiece and I'd recommend it to anyone willing to battle with it.

[sun surfer]

Oy, I didn't think the thread title would give so much confusion!

Originally Posted by BelleZora

It was The Satanic Verses that sparked my belated desire to read James Joyce. Incomprehensibly even to me, I really wanted to understand what Rushdie was trying to convey. Apparently that is not possible without first understanding Lucretius, Ovid, and James Joyce. I read The Odyssey long ago and enjoyed it, but it seems I must read it again before tackling more of Joyce.

Reading is both a joy and a torture. God help us.

The more you know of the Odyssey, the more you may pick up in Ulysses, but now that I've read Ulysses I realise reading the Odyssey first isn't really that essential, especially if you're already familiar with it. It is nice to have a general idea of the various sections of the Odyssey since the chapters of Ulysses are named after it and are sort of structured around it, but that's only one part of it. I'd say Joyce densely uses hundreds if not thousands of various references, allusions and structures (I found that out from my attempt with the ultra-comprehensive Ulysses Annotated) and unless you're using said annotations, it's nigh impossible to catch even half of them. The strategy that finally worked for me was to give up trying to understand even what was going on at times let alone references and such, and it was still a battle. But the good thing is that with so many references and the like, you're bound to still pick up on a good bit of them despite all the ones you may miss, which was probably more along the lines of Joyce's intention anyway.

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

Congratulations! What an accomplishment! I appreciated your description of how you managed to conquer it.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by issybird

Good for you, sun surfer. It's a lot to take on independently. I first read it as a freshman in college, which helped a lot, because of both the exigesis and the compulsion. I tried it again a few years later, to see how it went on my own, and was happy to discover that it's a good story, but the initial exposure made a big difference.

I haven't been very tempted to dip into it since, however, and Finnegan's Wake is a book too far for me.

Thanks, issybird. I can imagine reading it for a class and discussing it with others would be a huge help, but I'm amazed you've had a go at it twice. It reminds me of the saying, "Thank you, sir; may I have another?" Seriously though, it's impressive. I did love the book though and now that I know what's coming and understand the structures for the different chapters and the basic story, in a second reading I could pick up on things I missed the first time and spend more time enjoying the various parts, which it sounds like you had the pleasure of on your second reading.

Originally Posted by GeoffC

...I must admit I read it a few years ago - some parts had to be skipped for my sanity, but otherwise I enjoyed it. What was it about again !

Oh, you know, this and that.

Originally Posted by hidari

Well done....what is next????

War and Peace

Gravity's Rainbow

Don Quixote

The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman

keep up the pain...... or the pleasure…..

Thanks. Heh, those sound like pieces of cake compared to Ulysses. I’ve read War and Peace and it is a long but much much easier read. I’d also guess Don Quixote and Tristram Shandy would be much easier too. Not that any of those are easy at all, just that they aren’t in the same league of labyrinthine complexity as Ulysses. I've heard Gravity's Rainbow is difficult but if it’s harder than Ulysses then that’s quite a feat. Anyway I’d love the pain and pleasure of reading them all eventually.

[GeoffC]

The Bible ?

Congratulations Sun Surfer. I read Ulysses straight through shortly after I graduated college and worked for a few years before returning to graduate school. I was working in a very small town in South Carolina, and while the job was enjoyable and challenging, life outside of work was like being in a state of stasis. It took me almost six months to get through it and while I had already read Homer in college, much of Ulysses was lost on me. I consider that I am fairly well read, but not literate enough for Ulysses I guess. I fought Ulysses to the conclusion, but did not conquer it I'm afraid .

Originally Posted by hidari

Well done....what is next????

War and Peace

Gravity's Rainbow

Don Quixote

The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman

keep up the pain...... or the pleasure.....

War and Peace and Don Quixote are long, but not difficult to read or difficult to follow and comprehend. I found Gravity's Rainbow every bit as difficult as Ulysses and would never have gotten through that without really just skimming large passages. Any people considering reading Gravity's Rainbow would be doing themselves a great favor to read a long summary of what it is about first.

I've never read Tristam Shandy, checking it is a long book at the least.

Originally Posted by GeoffC

The Bible ?

The Bible is not difficult to read except for great passages of it being mind numbing trivia and, in the New Testament just several slightly different versions of the same story.

[BelleZora]

I agree that Don Quixote is not difficult. It is entertaining and often funny. I once read the Bible cover to cover. Leviticus and Deuteronomy were where I learned perseverance.

My formal education was sporadic and limited, although I have a life-long love of books. I don't think I realized what I was missing in academic discipline or even the ability to cogently discuss what I read until I found MR (and in discussions with my granddaughter who is a PhD candidate at Princeton). I appreciate that what binds us is simply a love of reading and that no one is turned out while learning from others.

I love that sun surfer described his struggles with this book and how the victory was achieved. It validated my hope that struggle is ultimately worthwhile.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by BelleZora

I agree that Don Quixote is not difficult. It is entertaining and often funny. I once read the Bible cover to cover. Leviticus and Deuteronomy were where I learned perseverance.

My formal education was sporadic and limited, although I have a life-long love of books. I don't think I realized what I was missing in academic discipline or even the ability to cogently discuss what I read until I found MR (and in discussions with my granddaughter who is a PhD candidate at Princeton). I appreciate that what binds us is simply a love of reading and that no one is turned out while learning from others.

I love that sun surfer described his struggles with this book and how the victory was achieved. It validated my hope that struggle is ultimately worthwhile.

[sun surfer]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

Congratulations Sun Surfer. I read Ulysses straight through shortly after I graduated college and worked for a few years before returning to graduate school. I was working in a very small town in South Carolina, and while the job was enjoyable and challenging, life outside of work was like being in a state of stasis. It took me almost six months to get through it and while I had already read Homer in college, much of Ulysses was lost on me. I consider that I am fairly well read, but not literate enough for Ulysses I guess. I fought Ulysses to the conclusion, but did not conquer it I'm afraid .

Thanks Hamlet53, and good on you for taking it on yourself and completing it at what sounds like a young age. Similarly I have just read the Odyssey and the Iliad within the last few years (the group reads here at MR actually), and studied them so to speak, and I agree they don't help all that much in understanding Ulysses. A basic understanding of the Odyssey did help - it clued me in to chapter names and certain structures and story turns - but there's just so much else going on in the book as well.

I don't know if anyone is really "literate" enough for Ulysses without "studying" it. It's just so dense and complex. I think only by some people going line by line and researching and discussing with other scholars and writing annotations and comparing notes have people begun unravelling everything in the book. You may have lost the battle of understanding parts of it, but you won the war of finishing it.

Originally Posted by BelleZora

I agree that Don Quixote is not difficult. It is entertaining and often funny. I once read the Bible cover to cover. Leviticus and Deuteronomy were where I learned perseverance.

My formal education was sporadic and limited, although I have a life-long love of books. I don't think I realized what I was missing in academic discipline or even the ability to cogently discuss what I read until I found MR (and in discussions with my granddaughter who is a PhD candidate at Princeton). I appreciate that what binds us is simply a love of reading and that no one is turned out while learning from others...

Now I have the opportunity to turn the tables and tell you that I'm impressed that you read the Bible entirely. I have tried before awhile ago and gave up a few books in. I still hope to one day.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by kennyc

That's my approach the half-dozen times I've tried....same with Neuromancer and any of the more recent Neil Stephenson books....

I conquered Neuromancer this year.

I've found that beer is a suitable choice during recovery.

[Penforhire]

Quite right, did not think of Joyce, whose works remain \impenetrable to me, at least beyond A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man.

[Katsunami]

I wonder.

How can a book actually be a good book if you need additional books to actually explain what is going on? (Assuming that the book you are reading is written in a language you can understand of course. I'm not a fan of books about books, except for maybe the History of Middle-Earth.)

[HomeInMyShoes]

If you asked the general public about the best published novels you would get a different answer than if you asked avid literary readers and a different answer if you asked the publishers and gatekeepers of old. It's part of the discussion. I read Ulysses, it is a great book, a great study in metafiction, a great idea. It is also a difficult read for sure. I wouldn't place it on my list of great novels I think people should read, but I understand why it exists on these lists of books. Did I understand all of it when I was reading it? Definitely not. Did I get a lot out of the book. Yes. Were some parts irritating? Yes. Were some parts funny and thought-provoking? Yes.

For me Joyce is a maddening writer because he can be long-winded and quite boring, but then he writes a couple of lines that for me are pure brilliance and I forgive him for the rest.
Well, maybe not all the rest, but large portions of it.

[Bookpossum]

I just found this thread, so belated congratulations from me too, sun surfer. I doubt that I could do it.

[Namekuseijin]

I've read the first few pages and found it reasonable enough but I'm still not quite in the mood for it. I guess the problem most people have with it is that it reads more like poetry than prose: its whereabouts are not described, but inferred from context.

No doubt shall make for a very good read, once my reading queue allows.