Tor/Forge Books Announces DRM-Free E-book Store

[ApK]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Yes they are. Publisher sets the price = Agency pricing..

Not exactly.... Publishers always 'set a price.' Then independent resellers set a different one. Agency pricing means publisher sets the price AND ANY OTHER RESELLER AGREES TO ACT AS AN AGENT OF THE PUBLISHER and resell for the same price.
Does Bean even HAVE others resell their ebooks? If not, they aren't doing agency pricing.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by ApK

Not exactly.... Publishers always 'set a price.' Then independent resellers set a different one. Agency pricing means publisher sets the price AND ANY OTHER RESELLER AGREES TO ACT AS AN AGENT OF THE PUBLISHER and resell for the same price.
Does Bean even HAVE others resell their ebooks? If not, they aren't doing agency pricing.

<devil's advocate>
... it is worse?
The price is still set by the publisher either way, and consumers have less choice in where they can acquire the book from.
</devil's advocate>

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Yes they are. Publisher sets the price = Agency pricing.

Just because you happen to like the price they set doesn't make it non agency.

How are they Agency? Their books on Fictionwise are fully discountable/couponable, which Agency books are not, and are sold using the wholesale model.

[stonetools]

As Baen demonstrates, agency pricing is not the same as "high" prices. Smashwords and indie authors also engage in "agency pricing."

Macmillan and Tor.com would say that their prices are "realistic" to the costs of book production, and that the reseller discounted prices are "unsustainable".
Whatever the truth of the argument, Tor.com will be able to set non-discountable final prices-and may be able to offer a "publisher's discount" on books from its own site, based on how the contracts with retailers are written.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

How are they Agency? Their books on Fictionwise are fully discountable/couponable, which Agency books are not, and are sold using the wholesale model.

Under agency pricing, the publisher can allow discounts. The point of agency is that the publisher, not the retailer ,controls the discounting. Maybe Baen came to an agreement with FW to allow discounting on their books. Other publishers don't allow such discounts for their own business reasons.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Under agency pricing, the publisher can allow discounts. The point of agency is that the publisher, not the retailer ,controls the discounting. Maybe Baen came to an agreement with FW to allow discounting on their books. Other publishers don't allow such discounts for their own business reasons.

Baen sells ebooks through FW's multiformat deal and has for many years. This is done using the wholesale model, not agency.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Baen sells ebooks through FW's multiformat deal and has for many years. This is done using the wholesale model, not agency.

Well, then, you are right. Other publishers have different arrangements with FW .
Baen sets its price on sales from its site. That's agency pricing.
Apparently, it has a wholesale arrangement on books sold through FW-or had.
My understanding was that it no longer sold ebooks through resellers.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Well, then, you are right. Other publishers have different arrangements with FW .
Baen sets its price on sales from its site. That's agency pricing.

No, it's only "agency pricing" if there's an "agent" involved in the process. When Baen sells books through its own site, there's no agent, hence no agency pricing. It's analogous to a manufacturer selling its products directly to the public.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, it's only "agency pricing" if there's an "agent" involved in the process. When Baen sells books through its own site, there's no agent, hence no agency pricing. It's analogous to a manufacturer selling its products directly to the public.

Agreed.
I got confused on the distinction between "agency pricing", and "Publisher-set pricing. " You can have "publisher-set pricing" on direct sales that's not "agency pricing" .
Also too , if Tor.com sells directly from its own site ,that's not "agency pricing" either.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Agreed.
I got confused on the distinction between "agency pricing", and "Publisher-set pricing. " You can have "publisher-set pricing" on direct sales that's not "agency pricing" .
Also too , if Tor.com sells directly from its own site ,that's not "agency pricing" either.

Actually, it can be agency pricing on Tor's site if it's the same price they are forcing other sellers to sell at.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, it can be agency pricing on Tor's site if it's the same price they are forcing other sellers to sell at.

No, Jon, it can't. If the publisher is selling the book themselves, there is no "agent", hence BY DEFINITION it is not "agency pricing". The other sellers may indeed be subject to an agency agreement, but Tor cannot be their own agent. An agent implies a third party.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Actually, it can be agency pricing on Tor's site if it's the same price they are forcing other sellers to sell at.

Only is Tor.com is a separate 'agent' that contracts with the parent company. Otherwise it would be publisher set pricing. They would be selling at the same amount as their agents (Amazon, B&N, Apple, etc) do because of the most favored nation clauses in current agency contracts.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Only is Tor.com is a separate 'agent' that contracts with the parent company. Otherwise it would be publisher set pricing. They would be selling at the same amount as their agents (Amazon, B&N, Apple, etc) do because of the most favored nation clauses in current agency contracts.

<aside>
This always confused me about the talk about Apple's 'Most Favoured' status in these contracts. If everybody has to sell at the same price, how is any one retailer more favoured than any other?

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

<aside>
This always confused me about the talk about Apple's 'Most Favoured' status in these contracts. If everybody has to sell at the same price, how is any one retailer more favoured than any other?

It's the MFN that helps ensure the books aren't being sold lower elsewhere. Otherwise a publisher could sell books for less through say B&N than Amazon if they wanted to. It would still be agency pricing as the publisher would be setting the price the agent sell at.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Only is Tor.com is a separate 'agent' that contracts with the parent company. Otherwise it would be publisher set pricing. They would be selling at the same amount as their agents (Amazon, B&N, Apple, etc) do because of the most favored nation clauses in current agency contracts.

Well that may be how Tor.com can discount. Tor.com can say that the MFN clause in those agency contracts apply to "agents"( retailers), not to Tor.com, which isn't a seperate agent. I'm sure the retailers would disagree, but frankly its hard to understand how Tor.com the bookstore could be seperate from Tor.com the publisher, if its the same company in both cases. After all, Amazon Publishing is considered just part of Amazon.