Tor/Forge Books Announces DRM-Free E-book Store

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by crossi

If the publisher is also a retailer then they are breaking their own agreement with Amazon about all retailers selling at the same price. They can however by selling at the same price that they set for everyone profit more from their own site because they won't be paying a commission to another retailer.

It requires no special talent whatsover to predict a lawsuit if Tor.com undercuts the retailers. I expect Tor.com will though, or how else will they draw buyers from Amazon et al.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by stonetools

It requires no special talent whatsover to predict a lawsuit if Tor.com undercuts the retailers. I expect Tor.com will though, or how else will they draw buyers from Amazon et al.

Because of the way current agreements are set up the other retailers can then just lower the price to match Tor.com's price. I don't think they're going to try and undercut their retailers at all. Just like they don't undercut on paper books.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Because of the way current agreements are set up the other retailers can then just lower the price to match Tor.com's price. I don't think they're going to try and undercut their retailers at all. Just like they don't undercut on paper books.

Then their bookstore may well fail. I think most folks are going to stick with their current bookstores unless there is some significant advantage in going to Tor.com.
If they can't offer an advantage in price, then their only option is really is exclusivity. They'll do one or the other within the year or they'll be known as the defunct DRM free store. You have to be realistic about these things.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Then their bookstore may well fail. I think most folks are going to stick with their current bookstores unless there is some significant advantage in going to Tor.com.
If they can't offer an advantage in price, then their only option is really is exclusivity. They'll do one or the other within the year or they'll be known as the defunct DRM free store. You have to be realistic about these things.

That's assuming that they plan on their store being anything more than any publishers store has ever been. That being an extra outlet to get books from and not an operation to actually compete in any real sense with the retailers who are the publishers life blood. Most publishers (big ones anyway [except Harlequin]) don't run their stores (pbook or ebook) in order to get large volumes of sales and therefore have little expectation for them as far as sales numbers go. Can't see them pulling their stuff from other stores and selling only direct either.

Tor may do something like Harlequin does and offer titles directly a month ahead of their official publication date before releasing them to other retailers. During that early release period they could sell for whatever price they want, before raising the price when the books hit regular markets.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Tor may do something like Harlequin does and offer titles directly a month ahead of their official publication date before releasing them to other retailers. During that early release period they could sell for whatever price they want, before raising the price when the books hit regular markets.

Harlequin isn't competing for slots on the NYTimes bestseller lists, in which sales-per-week matter. Release-week sales have a big impact on book ratings, and Tor won't want to mess that up.

They won't window on their own site first because they don't want to cannibalize their ratings-making sales. (Nevermind whether that'd actually happen; look at how many publishers aren't willing to risk hardcover sales by supporting good ebooks.)

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Harlequin isn't competing for slots on the NYTimes bestseller lists, in which sales-per-week matter. Release-week sales have a big impact on book ratings, and Tor won't want to mess that up.

They won't window on their own site first because they don't want to cannibalize their ratings-making sales. (Nevermind whether that'd actually happen; look at how many publishers aren't willing to risk hardcover sales by supporting good ebooks.)

I tend to agree with that. Just throwing out things they could do if they wanted to get around agency pricing agreements.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

That's assuming that they plan on their store being anything more than any publishers store has ever been. That being an extra outlet to get books from and not an operation to actually compete in any real sense with the retailers who are the publishers life blood. Most publishers (big ones anyway [except Harlequin]) don't run their stores (pbook or ebook) in order to get large volumes of sales and therefore have little expectation for them as far as sales numbers go. Can't see them pulling their stuff from other stores and selling only direct either.

Tor may do something like Harlequin does and offer titles directly a month ahead of their official publication date before releasing them to other retailers. During that early release period they could sell for whatever price they want, before raising the price when the books hit regular markets.

I think that John Sargent plans it to be more, much more. According to the announcement, they had been planning this for a while. Its hard to believe that this has no connection with the major issue concerning the ebook marketplace- agency pricing/Amazon/diversity of ebook retailers. I don't think that Sargent just "saw the light"about the ethical goodfulness of going DRM free, either.
Other facts to consider:

1. Macmillan was part of Bookish, which is a joint venture by several publishers to establish a direct marketing/sales channel. He pulled out late in 2009.
2. Sargent led the agency pricing charge against Amazon in February 2010, and is one of those who are contesting the DOJ action. He is right in the middle of the BPH effort to cut down on Amazon's influence.

Based on all that, I think there is something more than just a minor inconsequential effort to do what publishers have always done. .

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

That's assuming that they plan on their store being anything more than any publishers store has ever been. That being an extra outlet to get books from and not an operation to actually compete in any real sense with the retailers who are the publishers life blood. Most publishers (big ones anyway [except Harlequin]) don't run their stores (pbook or ebook) in order to get large volumes of sales and therefore have little expectation for them as far as sales numbers go. Can't see them pulling their stuff from other stores and selling only direct either.

Tor may do something like Harlequin does and offer titles directly a month ahead of their official publication date before releasing them to other retailers. During that early release period they could sell for whatever price they want, before raising the price when the books hit regular markets.

Tor has put a shitload of effort into building an online community at Tor.com already. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't do as well as Harlequin.com if it offers similar services (subscriptions, pre-release sales, etc.). Tor is a part-owner of Baen and has been paying attention to the activities and results there, as well.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Joykins

Tor has put a shitload of effort into building an online community at Tor.com already. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't do as well as Harlequin.com if it offers similar services (subscriptions, pre-release sales, etc.). Tor is a part-owner of Baen and has been paying attention to the activities and results there, as well.

Baen has exclusivity on its ebook sales now. I have a feeling Tor may follow Baen's lead there as well. Again, when you think Tor you need to also think of who is Tor's parent, Mcmillan, and who runs Macmillan.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by Joykins

Tor has put a shitload of effort into building an online community at Tor.com already. I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't do as well as Harlequin.com if it offers similar services (subscriptions, pre-release sales, etc.). Tor is a part-owner of Baen and has been paying attention to the activities and results there, as well.

It'll all depend on how they set things up. I don't see them pulling out of B&N, Amazon, etc. and going fully exclusive though.


Their Tor.com print book store doesn't appear to have gone to well as it's already closed up. Hopefully this will do better for them.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

It'll all depend on how they set things up. I don't see them pulling out of B&N, Amazon, etc. and going fully exclusive though.


Their Tor.com print book store doesn't appear to have gone to well as it's already closed up. Hopefully this will do better for them.

As people here are quick to tell me, print is different from ebooks.
There's really no technical reason why Tor.com couldn't exclusively sell direct. Its all coming from a server farm somewhere.
I think Tor.com will try to sell first through all channels as wellas through its own site. It can be done- Harlequin.com does that, I believe.
Maybe Tor.com can follow. Harlequin's lead. But Baen (which until now has always been held up here as THE model of a DRM free book store) went to exclusivity after starting with an all channels approach. Funny how people are now souring on the idea of Baen as THE model when its pointed out that they are ebook exclusive to their site.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by stonetools

As people here are quick to tell me, print is different from ebooks.

Yes, of course they are.

There's really no technical reason why Tor.com couldn't exclusively sell direct. Its all coming from a server farm somewhere.

Absolutely

I think Tor.com will try to sell first through all channels as wellas through its own site. It can be done- Harlequin.com does that, I believe.
Maybe Tor.com can follow. Harlequin's lead.

Yep, I think they'll continue to sell through all current channels too.

But Baen (which until now has always been held up here as THE model of a DRM free book store) went to exclusivity after starting with an all channels approach. Funny how people are now souring on the idea of Baen as THE model when its pointed out that they are ebook exclusive to their site.

When did Baen sell through other stores? Early on through Fictionwise I think they sold some of their titles (still do AFAIK), but they didn't sell in the Kindle store or anything. Baen is great, but a small niche publisher that publishes a handful of titles a month and has a unique outlook on ebooks is a lot different than Tor who publishes 2-3 times as many titles and has to deal with not only corporate Macmillan, but Holtzbrinck as well & the traditional mentality that goes along with it.

I just don't think they'll be doing a clone of Baen. Wouldn't complain if they did, and I hope their venture is successful, I just think it'll be closer to a 'regular' publishers store (sans DRM) than a Baen type setup.

[Joykins]

I didn't think they'd try to replicate what Baen has done. But there are a few things that Baen is doing that Tor is doing too.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Joykins

I didn't think they'd try to replicate what Baen has done. But there are a few things that Baen is doing that Tor is doing too.

But BAEN is not charging agency pricing. This is one thing Tor needs to learn.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But BAEN is not charging agency pricing. This is one thing Tor needs to learn.

Yes they are. Publisher sets the price = Agency pricing.

Just because you happen to like the price they set doesn't make it non agency.