Amazon email for too many returns

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

So if she got a defective item she should just keep it to keep her "excessive return rate" down?

No one has said anything remotely like that.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

So if she got a defective item she should just keep it to keep her "excessive return rate" down?

That's a strawman; cutting back on one's excessive return rate doesn't mean no returns at all. Down doesn't mean out.

An advantage to having parsed her order history is that Josie should be able to identify the products and types of products that generate her excessive return rate. Perhaps she's too picky; perhaps her needs are different than the typical user; perhaps it's a product with known quality issues; I could go on. And if she's just unlucky (and there will be some outliers who are), then she has my sympathy.

[Cinisajoy]

I do believe defective and not fitting properly are two different things.
Yes, she should return an item that does not work. Should one return a dash cell phone holder because it wasn't what the orderer thought it was? That is where the debate comes in.

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Yes I did mark them as defective and some were via customer services and others via the form.

Nobody is looking at the reasons for the returns if they where then I wouldn't have the letter in the first place.

I'll buy my cases from eBay now, which tbh is where the last few have come from anyway.

Originally Posted by issybird

Surely it's exactly the opposite of subjective. Sheer data kick out problem returners.

And saying "it's basically over" is sheer histrionics. There's no reason Josie can't continue as an ordinary Amazon customer; she just needs to cut back on her excessive return rate. The warning email was just that, and nothing more.

I find that as this type of discussion escalates, there are judgmental types on both sides. The major impetus (and I admit, I think it's the case here) is that the OP is seeking validation, not substantive advice, and is unwilling to acknowledge her own at least partial responsibility in the situation. Josie's not a demon, but neither is Amazon, at least in this case. There are contributing factors in the behavior of both entities.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

No one has said anything remotely like that.

Josie seemed to say a lot of her returns were for defective items. Issybird said Josie needs to cut back on excessive returns. Those two combined say she either needs to quit ordering or don't return defective items.

[soonerchick]

Originally Posted by issybird

Surely it's exactly the opposite of subjective. Sheer data kick out problem returners.

And saying "it's basically over" is sheer histrionics. There's no reason Josie can't continue as an ordinary Amazon customer; she just needs to cut back on her excessive return rate. The warning email was just that, and nothing more.

I find that as this type of discussion escalates, there are judgmental types on both sides. The major impetus (and I admit, I think it's the case here) is that the OP is seeking validation, not substantive advice, and is unwilling to acknowledge her own at least partial responsibility in the situation. Josie's not a demon, but neither is Amazon, at least in this case. There are contributing factors in the behavior of both entities.

I should've been a little more clear. Once they actually close your account, it's over. I received the warning and my account is still open. And no, you can't go on like a regular customer. You have to be very cognizant of what you are ordering and consider the chances of getting something defective or broken. You have to decide it if is worth the risk of losing your account. Also, It's very upsetting when they single you out like this. I felt so embarrassed, like a criminal. In my case, I had no control over the missing packages. They still flagged my account. I think Josieb is upset and confused, as she is entitled to be. Amazon should make clear guidelines so customers are not blindsided. They should also take into account the reasons for the returns, replacements, etc. I'm done.

[soonerchick]

Originally Posted by Josieb1

Thank you for being brave and posting. Getting these letters is not an easy thing to admit.

As to those reading this thread who can't imagine ever getting an email like mine, you never know.

No worries. I just hope you feel a little better. You won't get an explanation, at least not one that is satisfactory. I still order occasionally, but I try to make sure it's something I won't mind being stuck with...little things. I try not to think about it but when I saw this thread, it all came back. :roll eyes: I used to think differently until it happened to me. It is what it is though. You are not the only one, and won't be the last one.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

Josie seemed to say a lot of her returns were for defective items. Issybird said Josie needs to cut back on excessive returns. Those two combined say she either needs to quit ordering or don't return defective items.

Not so. There's quite a few options in between "not ordering" and "keeping defective items" which could reduce returns. And let's be clear... I don't have a problem in the world with returning defective items. But "defective" obviously doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

Other than truly "defective" (which I choose to toss out of the equation for now), my personal goal is to never have to return anything. Not in order to please Amazon, but because I hate every second I'm without something that I wanted enough to order online in the first place. So I inhale the product descriptions. If they don't tell me what I need to know; I don't order. If I find a different description that conflicts with another; I don't order. I scour the customer reviews for things like "does it fit device X well?" I look to see if customer questions concerning conflicting details that I noticed have been answered. I go to the manufacturers websites to make sure the descriptions I saw somewhere else match the model that's being advertised. I do my due diligence.

I do these things, not because I'm afraid the store I'm ordering from will ding me and I'll be cut off, but because I want to get the right thing the very first time. So that my enjoyment of said item can be immediate and can continue uninterrupted.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Not so. There's quite a few options in between "not ordering" and "keeping defective items" which could reduce returns. And let's be clear... I don't have a problem in the world with returning defective items. But "defective" obviously doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

Other than truly "defective" (which I choose to toss out of the equation for now), my personal goal is to never have to return anything. Not in order to please Amazon, but because I hate every second I'm without something that I wanted enough to order online in the first place. So I inhale the product descriptions. If they don't tell me what I need to know; I don't order. If I find a different description that conflicts with another; I don't order. I scour the customer reviews for things like "does it fit device X well?" I look to see if customer questions concerning conflicting details that I noticed have been answered. I go to the manufacturers websites to make sure the descriptions I saw somewhere else match the model that's being advertised. I do my due diligence.

I do these things, not because I'm afraid the store I'm ordering from will ding me and I'll be cut off, but because I want to get the right thing the very first time.

I have been known to call the manufacturer if I couldn't find the answer online before I order.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

Josie seemed to say a lot of her returns were for defective items. Issybird said Josie needs to cut back on excessive returns. Those two combined say she either needs to quit ordering or don't return defective items.

There's a huge middle ground where Josie doesn't order those products more likely to need returning. You are willfully ignoring that point. Josie herself said that a favorite line of tablet covers has a high rate of defects, i.e. they don't fit.

Josie's got Prime for a while longer. Constructive suggestions might help her get value from the remaining term without triggering sanctions, even if she chooses not to renew. Or, you can say, "Amazon is a bunch of old meanies and you've done nothing to deserve this," but I don't see how that helps.

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I do these things, not because I'm afraid the store I'm ordering from will ding me and I'll be cut off, but because I want to get the right thing the very first time. So that my enjoyment of said item can be immediate and can continue uninterrupted.

And also because I absolutely hate having to repackage something up securely and then having to take it back to UPS. Even though Amazon always gives a free shipping label so there's no immediate cash cost to me, there's still the packaging and tape expense, and it's just a royal pain in the rear to have to go through all that. That's the main reason I keep a bad $10 item like a case because it's just not worth my time to go through the return. But I fully research items first the same as you do, including reading reviews, and will even post a question if something isn't clear before deciding to buy or not.

But I really wouldn't take it more than a warning at this point and just don't make purchases just to see if I like something. Definitely return defective items, they can't hold that against you. But don't purchase anything where you just might not like it. Do that shopping elsewhere, preferably in person so you can see the item first. You've stripped your ebooks of DRM, do the same for your audiobooks and everything is protected. Amazon may be one of the most convenient, but it isn't the only store for online purchases.

Amazon should be able to disclose more information if the consumer receiving such a letter asks for it though. I'd point out that out of xx items returned, xx were because the items were defective and that's not your problem or fault at all, that you didn't just buy and return items on a whim.

Has anyone actually had their account cancelled after receiving such an email?

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Not so. There's quite a few options in between "not ordering" and "keeping defective items" which could reduce returns. And let's be clear... I don't have a problem in the world with returning defective items. But "defective" obviously doesn't mean the same thing to everyone.

Other than truly "defective" (which I choose to toss out of the equation for now), my personal goal is to never have to return anything. Not in order to please Amazon, but because I hate every second I'm without something that I wanted enough to order online in the first place. So I inhale the product descriptions. If they don't tell me what I need to know; I don't order. If I find a different description that conflicts with another; I don't order. I scour the customer reviews for things like "does it fit device X well?" I look to see if customer questions concerning conflicting details that I noticed have been answered. I go to the manufacturers websites to make sure the descriptions I saw somewhere else match the model that's being advertised. I do my due diligence.

I do these things, not because I'm afraid the store I'm ordering from will ding me and I'll be cut off, but because I want to get the right thing the very first time. So that my enjoyment of said item can be immediate and can continue uninterrupted.

My goal is not to return anything as well, but I just looked at my recent orders and saw three in the past two months that were either defective or not as described. One that was defective was even recommended by another Mobileread member, so I was obviously unlucky. On another the dimensions didn't match what the description said, and the third was a phone case that was supposed to be grippy and multiple reviews said was grippy. It turned out to be much more slippery than my phone with no case. I didn't return any of them because they were all about $8 and not worth my while to return. Maybe other people's finances don't allow wasting that much money.

[Difflugia]

Originally Posted by soonerchick

Amazon should make clear guidelines so customers are not blindsided.

This is the key. I took a while and browsed through Amazon's site trying to find the details and fine print of Amazon's return policy. I found a grand total of two statements of the policy and here they are:





There are a few more modification for different types of items (returning a cell phone doesn't cancel your service, for example, and software isn't returnable at all). Nothing in the policy says how often you may return items or for what reasons, as long as the items are in new condition.

Amazon is, however, clearly acting on a different policy.

People have claimed that a return rate of 15% or 25% or returning things after a vacation are unreasonable and that a retailer taking action against these things is reasonable. Even if I agree, that isn't Amazon's stated policy.

To me, it's the same as cell data providers that claim to allow unlimited use, but slow down or cut off users that use "too much". I think that amounts to fraud and the FTC agrees with me.

Those that are arguing that 15% (or 25% or whatever arbitrary fraction) or returning 7 of 8 otherwise identical items after choosing the color you like best is too many returns are arguing that Amazon should have a different policy. The reality is that Amazon agrees, so it sends out letters based on what their policy should be. Amazon refuses to change the stated policy, though, presumably because more people will buy more things if they believe (incorrectly) that they can return anything in new condition within 30 days without other apparent limitation.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Difflugia

This is the key. I took a while and browsed through Amazon's site trying to find the details and fine print of Amazon's return policy. I found a grand total of two statements of the policy and here they are:





There are a few more modification for different types of items (returning a cell phone doesn't cancel your service, for example, and software isn't returnable at all). Nothing in the policy says how often you may return items or for what reasons, as long as the items are in new condition.

Amazon is, however, clearly acting on a different policy.

People have claimed that a return rate of 15% or 25% or returning things after a vacation are unreasonable and that a retailer taking action against these things is reasonable. Even if I agree, that isn't Amazon's stated policy.

To me, it's the same as cell data providers that claim to allow unlimited use, but slow down or cut off users that use "too much". I think that amounts to fraud and the FTC agrees with me.

Those that are arguing that 15% (or 25% or whatever arbitrary fraction) or returning 7 of 8 otherwise identical items after choosing the color you like best is too many returns are arguing that Amazon should have a different policy. The reality is that Amazon agrees, so it sends out letters based on what their policy should be. Amazon refuses to change the stated policy, though, presumably because more people will buy more things if they believe (incorrectly) that they can return anything in new condition within 30 days without other apparent limitation.

As to that unlimited use, every cell phone provider says clearly and plainly unlimited up to X GB, then it will slow down.
My son complained to me about how it wasn't clear. Turns out he had not read the box with the phone, the prepaid card or the display wall.
I asked why he didn't read the no so fine print.

Perhaps one should read farther to where it says we reserve the right to limit returns.

Now I am not saying Josieb1 is an abuser, but the thing is if they told Josieb1 exactly what triggered the letter then they would have to tell everyone and then the actual abusers would game the system.

[pidgeon92]

It certainly isn't just Amazon that is tracking returns. This article might be of interest to some:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...turns/2642607/

[Barbara1955]

IF You cant return things After a Vacation or Holliday HOW Come the Biggest returns are After Christmas & New Year To the Point B&M Stores have More RETURN lanes than Check Out Lanes??
A Friend Purchased a Brand New Camera to take on his 30 Day Cruise WHY Cause Not One Picture of the cruise he took came out! Why shouldn't he return the item? Store says he used it... So If he hadn't used it How was he to know it didn't work? After much argument he did finally get the money for the camera but at what cost No pictures to remember the trip by. I Took a camera to Germany Once in a Life time 2 week trip with my Army Unit. 50% of the Picture Never came out! So I have 1/2 a trip ...Side trip to Paris never came out Make me sick when people question others about these things.