Cutting Prices is the only way to stop piracy

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Oh please, the pathetic excuse of the criminal, "but I wouldn't have bought it anyway". That's a very old and tired story.

It is not an excuse. It is an argument for that the loss figures are inflated. Bad arguments should always be attacked and corrected.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

HarryT, what's your opinion of geo-restriction that now prevents people from accessing legally purchased eBooks that was bought 100% legally before geo-restriction and now cannot access those eBooks? Some people need this access because they need to update the DRM. And even if not, they still should have access to the eBooks since they were legally paid for before geo-restrictions.

Why do you think it was 100% legally if they were not allowed to sell the book (which was the case)? If a pirate sell a book and you buy it will you complain that it is not always available from the pirate?

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I think that it's a very bad thing. But it's not the publisher's fault - they have no choice in the matter. If you want to blame someone, blame the author for signing a geographically-restricted contract.

It is also the publishers fault because they do not offer enough money for world wide rights to make it rational for an author to sell world wide rights to one publisher. I would say that it is mostly the publishers fault here. Why should the author choose an alternative that gives him less money?

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Back to the thread topic.

I just noted that the next Lost Fleet ebook by Jack Campbell is available for pre-order on Amazon. Price difference between the last book and this one is US$5 ($7.99 to $12.99)

I must admit the price gave me pause and the unbidden thought "Get it elsewhere" flashed through my mind, but I ordered it duly.

The price hike though is pretty steep.

And the previous one was a paperback original while the new one is coming out in hardcover, and the eBook is almost 25% cheaper than the paper edition on Amazon. The real question is going to be what happens to the Kindle price when the dead tree edition hits mass market in about a year.

I'm also with HarryT, the question of whether a person would have bought something if they didn't download it is irrelevant to the question of whether they should have downloaded it illegitimately. Just because it may not be a lost sale doesn't magically make it okay.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by tompe

It is also the publishers fault because they do not offer enough money for world wide rights to make it rational for an author to sell world wide rights to one publisher. I would say that it is mostly the publishers fault here. Why should the author choose an alternative that gives him less money?

And why should the publisher pay extra for rights they can't exploit? If they buy world rights for a book they're going to have to resell print rights for areas they don't service. All it's going to do is drive costs up for everyone.

[wyndslash]

just the thought of having to pay an additional $2 for "international wireless delivery fees" (when i'm not even using a kindle 3g) for virtually nothing always tempts me to 'get it elsewhere'. but i never could. i always feel too damned guilty about it.

so for now i'm just holding off on any purchases. i wonder if this is how amazon passes on the charges to its international customers just so they could tout free 3g to those eligible *shrug* oh well. when there's a will, there's a way :P /end emotional rant

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

And why should the publisher pay extra for rights they can't exploit? If they buy world rights for a book they're going to have to resell print rights for areas they don't service. All it's going to do is drive costs up for everyone.

My thought was that the equations is different here since the publisher can take a more long term perspective and the current alienation of buyers might be bad for the publisher long term wise.

[FF2]

Originally Posted by sabredog

I will let him know that.

Shame the publishing companies still INCLUDE geographic restrictions within their contract documents which are still being offered to authors and their agents.

I am just grabbing yours to quote but could have latched on to a few.

I am still at a loss to understand the geo-restrictions issue. As I understand it people can purchase a real printed book and have it shipped to another country and that does not violate contract/law/whatever. Geo-restrictions apparently do not apply to Amazon selling the printed book to someone overseas.

But now turn that same book into electrons and geo-restrictions come into play. That same person could order the pbook today and have the order processed and eventually shipped. But if that same person was the companion EBOOK, no-can-do.

So somewhere besides the contract that the author/agent/publisher signed is some law or legal restriction that makes ebooks different - the sale supposedly takes place at the purchaser's location. Pbook is the vendor. That does not seem to be something the author necessarily signed onto or is based on more obscure law and the intial contracting provisions. Someone somewhere defined how the transaction is viewed and that probably was not the author.

[elcreative]

Geo-restrictions do apply to pbooks but they're ignored in reality for most individual purchases but if you were to import a couple of thousand copies of a US book to sell in the UK or France... that would trigger a warning and action from publishers... possibly the sellers think e sales may be easier to track form company records and/or they've already been warned off...

[queentess]

Originally Posted by FF2

I am still at a loss to understand the geo-restrictions issue. As I understand it people can purchase a real printed book and have it shipped to another country and that does not violate contract/law/whatever. Geo-restrictions apparently do not apply to Amazon selling the printed book to someone overseas.

But now turn that same book into electrons and geo-restrictions come into play. That same person could order the pbook today and have the order processed and eventually shipped. But if that same person was the companion EBOOK, no-can-do.

My understanding is that it's to do with where the sale occurred (which has a bearing on tax as well). If you're importing the pbook, the sale occurred at the store from which it was purchased. If you're buying an ebook, the point of sale is your location, which the publisher may or may not own the rights to. It's even possible that a publisher can own rights to sell a pbook in your area, but not have the rights to sell you an ebook.

It's a very strange way in which the digital world has affected the physical world... geographical territories don't make sense like they used to when you take in account e-commerce.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Geo-restrictions do apply to pbooks but they're ignored in reality for most individual purchases but if you were to import a couple of thousand copies of a US book to sell in the UK or France... that would trigger a warning and action from publishers... possibly the sellers think e sales may be easier to track form company records and/or they've already been warned off...

Are you sure that's the case? Bookstores in the UK import and sell US books all the time!

[Piper_]

Originally Posted by queentess

My understanding is that it's to do with where the sale occurred (which has a bearing on tax as well). If you're importing the pbook, the sale occurred at the store from which it was purchased. If you're buying an ebook, the point of sale is your location, which the publisher may or may not own the rights to. It's even possible that a publisher can own rights to sell a pbook in your area, but not have the rights to sell you an ebook.

It's a very strange way in which the digital world has affected the physical world... geographical territories don't make sense like they used to when you take in account e-commerce.

Yes, that is the issue.

The problem all stems from a (crazy, imo) law that says the point of sale for a digital book is at the customer's computer.

The point of sale for a paper book is the store itself.

[Lemurion]

Originally Posted by Piper_

Yes, that is the issue.

The problem all stems from a (crazy, imo) law that says the point of sale for a digital book is at the customer's computer.

The point of sale for a paper book is the store itself.

Basically: I think it's actually the user's credit card billing address - but that's the point.

[sufue]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Are you sure that's the case? Bookstores in the UK import and sell US books all the time!

And vice versa, although not, perhaps, "all the time". But my favorite local bookstore store used to do it, especially for historical mysteries, which don't seem to sell all that well in the US.

Until it went out of business, of course. But that's another thread

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by tompe

It is also the publishers fault because they do not offer enough money for world wide rights to make it rational for an author to sell world wide rights to one publisher. I would say that it is mostly the publishers fault here. Why should the author choose an alternative that gives him less money?

Leisure buys worldwide rights from authors but still geo-restricts the sale of epub versions of those books. Only the Topaz versions on Amazon are available worldwide.