Is there an anti-LCD/pro-Eink bias on MobileRead?

[astra]

Originally Posted by doreenjoy

IMO (which stands for In MY Opinion, btw) the "for me" is implied whenever someone posts. We're all sitting alone typing our thoughts. There is no "group think" involved when someone posts. Any bias is easily seen through...again IMO.

Finally

It is fairly obvious, that when we post on a forum, we post our own opinions unless stated otherwise.

[maidavale]

While I have no problems when people argue/discuss about their preference of technologies used, I can't help but feel that it becomes apples-to-oranges comparison when it comes down to discussions b/w two specific devices.

In terms of functionalities, ergonomics, etc., I just find it annoying when, say, Kindle DX would be compared against a 9" netbook (a tablet one at that, especially in the near future w/ many upcoming tablet netbooks). For me, it seems as one would get them to fulfill different purposes - completing various tasks using a portable PC vs. reading a book on a dedicated reader, enjoying all the ergonomic benefits.

As for me, while I wish a tablet device that uses LCD would serve as an all-encompassing platform where I can do everything (for economic reasons & the high # of pdf documents), I just can't use LCD device for a prolonged time due to ergonomic & portability issues. Of course, this kind of preference must differ b/w each individual. Also, the nature of devices matter... for many, reading on LCD may be fine if they come in the forms of mobile phones and something like TechCrunch's upcoming CrunchPad (not that I like Mike Arrington).

Oh well, I'll sit & wait for Pixel Qi screens.

As for bias/group think issue and all, I think MobileRead is free of such things for the most part, including the whole supposed anti-LCD issue. I hear very good arguments from both sides (which means I'll never decide on that *perfect* device ). Compared to other places on the Internet, this place is very healthy in many aspects. Of course, I'll have to disagree with doreenjoy & astra... in certain communities, you'll get slaughtered for voicing opposing opinions (e.g. speaking against libertarianism/atheism/marijuana legalization in the U.S. on social-bookmarking sites like Reddit, w/ younger audiences; being progressive on a place like... Rush Limbaugh forums; speaking against Zionist conspiracy theories on white supremacist forums; etc.). Yah, the Internet... er, bloody hell.

[HansTWN]

Yes, we are not talking about racism here! We are talking about users who express their feelings about their experiences with different technologies for their personal needs. If the majority prefers E-Ink then that just means it is more suitable for the needs of heavy readers. I wouldn't call it a bias, I would call it a preference. But since heavy readers are a small minority the convenience of multi-function devices with LCDs and maybe OLEDs will win out in the market place and e-ink will remain a small niche (but hopefully not go away). I like multi-function, I have used my phones for browsing, reading, e-mail, IM, music, videos, document reading and editing for more than 4 years since the days of the Palm Treo and HP PDAs. But for me e-ink devices are most comfortable for my eyes. And the battery lasts and lasts. IMHO it will be a while until multifunction tablets will come close to that functionality.

[Sweetpea]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Yes, we are not talking about racism here! We are talking about users who express their feelings about their experiences with different technologies for their personal needs. If the majority prefers E-Ink then that just means it is more suitable for the needs of heavy readers. I wouldn't call it a bias, I would call it a preference. But since heavy readers are a small minority the convenience of multi-function devices with LCDs and maybe OLEDs will win out in the market place and e-ink will remain a small niche (but hopefully not go away). I like multi-function, I have used my phones for browsing, reading, e-mail, IM, music, videos, document reading and editing for more than 4 years since the days of the Palm Treo and HP PDAs. But for me e-ink devices are most comfortable for my eyes. And the battery lasts and lasts. IMHO it will be a while until multifunction tablets will come close to that functionality.

When the prices of e-ink devices drop (as they must!), more people will get both. An e-ink device for dedicated reading and a LCD/OLED/PixelQ device for general useage which can also be used for reading.

I will get an e-ink device for dedicated reading this summer, but I most certainly will continue reading on my PDA (until I replace it with another backlit screen).

[Nate the great]

There is an aphorism that applies here:

If you say something enough times, it doesn't matter whether it's true; it _becomes_ the truth.

I've read here on MR any number of statements about the many reasons why it is impossible to read on LCDs. This was on its way to becoming an accepted truth here on MR (if it hasn't happened already).

This might not bother you, but it concerns me.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Sweetpea

But that's no reason to say why people shouldn't buy a 5", just because you don't like smaller screens. 5" in my eyes is huge... I can't even imagine how a 8" or larger looks like (in terms of reading books).

I didn't say a 5" screen is not ok for others. But for me, after having my 500 nd then 505 (both 6"), I don't want a reader with a smaller screen. In fact, I may someday want a reader with a larger screen. But for now, I'll stick with a 6" screen. So for me, no matter how good or not the Jetbook is, it doesn't count (IMHO) because the screen is too small for me. Now if we have an LCD reader that has a 6" or larger screen, good battery life (24 hours or more) and can be viewed well in full sunlight, I would take a look.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

There is an aphorism that applies here:

If you say something enough times, it doesn't matter whether it's true; it _becomes_ the truth.

I've read here on MR any number of statements about the many reasons why it is impossible to read on LCDs. This was on its way to becoming an accepted truth here on MR (if it hasn't happened already).

This might not bother you, but it concerns me.

It's not impossible to read on an LCD screen. I do it all the time. And before I got my 500, I used to read on my computer LCD monitor and a fairly old laptop LCD screen. And we have two LCD TVs as well. I have no eye strain at all. I have no idea where the idea that LCD causes eyestrain comes from. If LCD was that bad, then computer monitors would still be CRTs and so would TVs.

[netseeker]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have no idea where the idea that LCD causes eyestrain comes from. If LCD was that bad, then computer monitors would still be CRTs and so would TVs.

Nobody said that CRTs would be better than LCDs. But if you have to use LCDs the whole day and you have sensitive eyes than it *can* cause eyestrain. (I know it because it happens to me every now and then)

[ahi]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I have no idea where the idea that LCD causes eyestrain comes from. If LCD was that bad, then computer monitors would still be CRTs and so would TVs.

My guess is, the idea comes from the fact that human eyes are overwhelmingly used for looking at objects that do not emit light, and therefore extended viewing of light-emitting objects, particularly at a close distance, would strain it above and beyond "normal use".

The degree to which this is the case from person to person may be debatable... I don't see how the "whether or not" of it can be.

Though I certainly agree with you that LCDs are certainly better, not worse, than CRTs. Not in the same class as non-light-emitting surfaces like eInk screens though.

- Ahi

[rgeorg]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

For me it is not a red herring. I do use my 505 outside in bright sunlight. If a device does not work well in full sunlight, it won't work for me as a reader. In fact, I'll be using my 505 in the sun this weekend.
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https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10256
post #13 (6-6-2007)

I just had my reader in the sunlight and it starts to fade very quickly. Have a look at the attached photo to see what I mean. Anyway, is there something that can be done about this?

I was just reading a revived-2007 thread about eink fading out in direct sunlight(see link above). Is this still a problem? Seems a K2 still has a similar problem and aren't the screens the same? I thought one of the big selling points for eink is the ability to read in direct sunlight?

[demoric]

I found on my Kindle 2 that during direct noon-day sunlight in 100 degree+ temperature there was an ink fading issue between screen refreshes. I also found that when I went to a different font that the fading issue was minimized to nearly non-existent. For me this is a small extreme use issue and I don't normally read in full direct sunlight (I prefer a slightly shaded area). Also worth mentioning I didn't have this issue during more temperate times of the day.

On the topic of LCD vs. E-Ink. I used to read on my Jornada 525 PDA, but could never even think of reading outside even in the shade as the LCD screen was too poor to show in sunlight.

Honestly though I am looking forward to seeing some of the new technology from http://www.pixelqi.com/ if they can produce a LCD screen that has color, is easy to see in sunlight and has reasonable battery consumption that would be my silver bullet screen type.

[netseeker]

Originally Posted by rgeorg

I was just reading a revived-2007 thread about eink fading out in direct sunlight(see link above). Is this still a problem? Seems a K2 still has a similar problem and aren't the screens the same? I thought one of the big selling points for eink is the ability to read in direct sunlight?

I know that some users of the PRS-505 have similiar problems. Anyway i can read in direct sunlight without any problems - even on the beach. I guess that only some screens have that problem with fading out in direct sunlight. But it might also be that i just had more luck than others...

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by demoric

I found on my Kindle 2 that during direct noon-day sunlight in 100 degree+ temperature there was an ink fading issue between screen refreshes. I also found that when I went to a different font that the fading issue was minimized to nearly non-existent. For me this is a small extreme use issue and I don't normally read in full direct sunlight (I prefer a slightly shaded area). Also worth mentioning I didn't have this issue during more temperate times of the day.

the manufacturer quotes temperature range for proper operation and if you exceed this range you can expect problems at both ends of the extreme. It has nothing to do with sunlight per se.

Dale

[JSWolf]

When it gets cold, my 505's screen becomes sluggish. I did have a 500 that had the 1st gen eink screen and it did have fading issues in sunlight. My 505 used Visplex and no problem in direct sunlight.

[doreenjoy]

I can't read an LCD in bright light, either.