Kindle in the wrong direction

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by Gideon

As Andy said... I don't think it's an elaborate plot, but the screen isn't there. It can't refresh enough for those sorts of functions to work all that well.

I don't want another LCD. If I want a LCD that can read a book, I can turn my laptop sideways. Or get a netbook. I don't. I want an eInk screen so I can read for hours and hours and have a bundle of texts with me, too.

So Asus can make whatever they want - but unless it works as well as eInk, I'll keep reading on my Kindle.

Exactly. when you're reading lots, noting better the the E-ink, and the lightness of an e-reader. It just hold in the hand better. Battery life is an other point, i don't wanna have to worry about that too much.
But halas, e-ink screen are still suffering serious problem with refreshing.
My eyes are thankful that i use e-ink. I've read on various screen,from my TI-89, to my DS, or even my pretty descent laptop screen. Noting match to comfort and easiness of my cybook.

What we need is for a court to decide that ebooks are NOT software once and for all.

Did i miss a part of the us legislation ?
And what's this "MaryLou" display ?

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by Alisa

I'm one of the geeks who would love to have a multifunction device that was great for web browsing, some light writing and for reading books but I can't see a netbook filling this need. I've met a few people who are fine reading entire books on LCD screens. Most read on devices smaller than a netbook which are easier to hold for long periods. Occasionally I see people who read on a larger LCD screen and are happy. From most of the comments I see here, it seems most of us find these screens unsuitable. Even though I sit at a computer all day, it's not the same as reading for hours without a break. When I'm working, my eyes leave the screen frequently. When I do have to stare at the screen for an hour straight, my eyes hurt. If you add to this the fact that a netbook weighs two to three times as much, generates a lot of heat and for all that still only gets you about half a day before you need to plug it in, it seems a poor substitute. Maybe these people really don't mind the downsides. It seems likely to me that for most of them it makes sense to them on the surface but either they don't usually read at length or they haven't actually tried reading an entire book that way. Sadly, lack of experience doesn't keep people from voicing opinions, especially on the interwebs.

I do think multifunction is the way it's going. On the bright side, you won't have to use it to browse the web or do anything besides read books if you don't want to, but a device that can do all that will appeal to a lot more people. Volume will likely mean lower prices and greater content availability for all of us.

Yeah, I think a lot of the resistance to such things as LCD tablet devices here is two things.

1. It's an e-reader site so you have a lot of people who are very loyal to dedicated readers and e-ink technology.

2. Most here are avid readers who are reading for at least a few hours a day and often several hours a day. And they only think about what type of device they need/want.

In the mainstream, the fact is that avid readers are a niche, and an LCD screen is fine for people reading only ocassionally and seldom ever for more than an hour or two. And that dedicated readers would never sell to most people, as most people don't read enough books to warrant buying one (just like it would be silly for someone who hardly ever listened to music to buy an iPod).

So a multifunction tablet that happens to read books would sell much better since people would buy one for the things they do all the time--surf the net, watch movies, tv shows and videos, play games, use random apps (like on the iPhone etc.).

Personally, I'm all for it--especially Apple's rumored Tablet device since it would likely be able to use the kindle store like the iPhone/iPod Touch can. More people with access is a good thing as it expands the market, can increase sales, and encourage more publishers to get their books in an e-book format.

I may never buy one, since I like e-ink screens. But I could see myself getting a table with a good stylus interface to use for internet and reading/marking up PDFs of scholarly journal articles some day, while still having a small portable e-ink reader for my leisure reading. But even the latter I may could change my mind on as I seldom read for more than an hour or two, and I don't think LCD bothers me much. I sit at a PC for hours every day reading and writing and my eyes do fine.

I'm not really an avid reader by the standards here. I'm always reading something--so I read way more than most in my circle of friends/acquaintances. But I still generally only read for an hour or so before sleep a few nights a week. So I could probably get by with reading on some kind of LCD tablet as long as the battery life was reasonable (6-8 hours of continuous use would do me fine, but of course the longer the better).

[Jaime_Astorga]

Originally Posted by Alisa

Most read on devices smaller than a netbook which are easier to hold for long periods. Occasionally I see people who read on a larger LCD screen and are happy. From most of the comments I see here, it seems most of us find these screens unsuitable. Even though I sit at a computer all day, it's not the same as reading for hours without a break. When I'm working, my eyes leave the screen frequently. When I do have to stare at the screen for an hour straight, my eyes hurt. If you add to this the fact that a netbook weighs two to three times as much, generates a lot of heat and for all that still only gets you about half a day before you need to plug it in, it seems a poor substitute. Maybe these people really don't mind the downsides. It seems likely to me that for most of them it makes sense to them on the surface but either they don't usually read at length or they haven't actually tried reading an entire book that way. Sadly, lack of experience doesn't keep people from voicing opinions, especially on the interwebs.

Well, if technological trends hold up, netbooks will get smaller and get longer battery life. When it comes to that point, I wonder what percent of people will still opt for dedicated eBook devices.

[dmaul1114]

I don't think you'd see much of a decline right away in dedicated eBook device sales. They'll always appeal to avid readers who want the e-ink screens etc. Just like the rise of MP3 hasn't killed CDs or CD players etc. You'd just see future growth curtailed.

LCD tablets etc. will sell mainly to people who would never think of buying an eReader as they don't read enough and bought it for other purposes. But some of those people will know that they can get books on it and maybe start buying a few books here and there on them.

The real key will be getting a new type of screen that can do internet, movies, TV, touch screen for stylus writing etc. etc. and be as easy (or close) on the eyes as eInk and has the great battery life. But that's a long ways off probably.

I'd think even most current ebook fans would eventually love to have a multifunction device like that--except for the true book worms whose only hobby is reading of course. I'd love something like that as I spend more time surfing the net, watching movies, watching TV shows, watching sports, playing video games etc. than I do reading. So I'd love a device that was easy on the eyes, had great battery life etc. and could do all that stuff. I'd never leave the house without it--where as now my Kindle mainly stays on the night stand to bed read a bit at night a few times a week.

[Alisa]

Originally Posted by Jaime_Astorga

Well, if technological trends hold up, netbooks will get smaller and get longer battery life. When it comes to that point, I wonder what percent of people will still opt for dedicated eBook devices.

Absolutely. There are already interesting trends on the horizon for both screens and batteries that could bring us towards my holy grail tablet/netbook of <1lb && >1day. If I can read it in sunlight and it won't strain my eyes, I will be in gadget geek nirvana.

[taosaur]

It seems to be deliberately attempting to become a totally separate device for reading digital versions of newspapers, magazines and text books only.

Congratulations, blogger, you've successfully stated what an ebook reader is

I'm usually the first one in line to dismiss b&w eInk as a dead end on the tech tree, but this guy clearly hasn't the foggiest about how eInk or LCDs operate, or the relative merits of each.

I don't think you'd see much of a decline right away in dedicated eBook device sales. They'll always appeal to avid readers who want the e-ink screens etc. Just like the rise of MP3 hasn't killed CDs or CD players etc. You'd just see future growth curtailed.

This is more or less what I'm expecting, not that eInk sales will fall off, but that ebook sales will explode, taking a serious bite out of print sales, and most of those sales will be to people reading on inexpensive tablets/netbooks or smartphones.

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

The real key will be getting a new type of screen that can do internet, movies, TV, touch screen for stylus writing etc. etc. and be as easy (or close) on the eyes as eInk and has the great battery life. But that's a long ways off probably.

If the 3Qi screen isn't vaporware, it could be in products next year. I could be swapping one into my netbook this fall (not likely, but a lad can dream).

[John Bailey]

Originally Posted by kuliand

I don't get this geek obsession that a device has to be multi functional and has to be connected to the internet all the time it drives me mad with people saying they would just buy a netbook over a kindle if i want to browse the damn internet i'll use my computer.

Agreed. Next time, ask two further questions.
1) Have they used an e-reader with an e-ink display for more than five minutes?
2) Do they read anything other than manuals and text books?

Of the people who think a netbook is just as good, I'd bet most will answer no to both questions.

It isn't much different to having a conversation with someone who is really into music and trying to sell them on the idea of the first MP3 players when there were perfectly good portable CD players already on the market for much less.

Why spend so much on a little gadget with tinny sound, that needs a whole computer to load up with an album or two, and that is super expensive? When for a fraction of the cost, I can buy a nice looking sleekly designed CD waklman with good sound, and buy music and listen to it straight away. And I can also carry around enough music to last me all day in the same bag. These MP3 players will never take off.

But when was the last time you saw a portable CD player in use?

E-readers with proper e-ink displays are still far too rare for most people to have had enough hands on time to be convinced either way. So they see the e-book reader as a text display, and one display is as good as another.

Personally I hate multi function devices. They never do all the functions well. I refuse to even buy a scanner/printer all in one device.

[EowynCarter]

Personally I hate multi function devices. They never do all the functions well. I refuse to even buy a scanner/printer all in one device.

True. My small P3 overmatch the Ipod touch when it comes to pure mp3 / video reading.

I'll probably get one of these printer / scanner / photocopier thingy. Will do for what i need. I have neither money or room for buy all tree device, and don't have an intensive use of it.
But yeah, my father's printer does only black and white printing, but it's awsome. (My mother's a teacher, so she prints a lot.)

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by John Bailey

Personally I hate multi function devices. They never do all the functions well. I refuse to even buy a scanner/printer all in one device.

Not really. The Canon/Xerox laser multi-functions (printer/copier/scanner/fax) we have at work are excellent. Albeit, they're probably really expensive, too. Besides, it's not if the multi-function does something particularly well that matters. It's if they can do the job good enough that a lot of people care about.

Still, I do agree that the blog post was shortsighted. While I prefer multi-function devices (for comics/manga, a computer still works best), I understand that there is a market for dedicated readers for a variety of reasons. It's not a very big one (more people seem to prefer YouTube as opposed to reading), but it exists.

Originally Posted by kuliand

I don't get this geek obsession that a device has to be multi functional and has to be connected to the internet all the time it drives me mad with people saying they would just buy a netbook over a kindle if i want to browse the damn internet i'll use my computer.

Technically, isn't the Kindle connected to the internet all the time? Heck, even more so than a netbook. Verizon has pretty good signal in various locations, while wifi is not as readily available. True, you can get a 3G plan for your netbook, but in the US, that's just too darn expensive and there's the whole 5GB monthly cap.

Myself, I do want an always connected device (reason I got an iPhone). I don't really need it for browsing the internet, checking email or watching YouTube, but it's invaluable for access to practically unlimited reading material available online. If I can't find a book I want to read among the 500 currently stored on my iPhone, I can always browse FeedBooks, BooksOnBoard, FictionWise, Amazon, etc to get new content.

[Jaime_Astorga]

Originally Posted by John Bailey

Personally I hate multi function devices. They never do all the functions well. I refuse to even buy a scanner/printer all in one device.

I have an HP All-In-One and let me tell you, it works wonders.

[kuliand]

Well i wouldn't mind if the kindle didn't have the 3G modem i have sony prs505 and i have never thought wouldn't it be nice if could download a book on the go so all my books i can just transfer onto my device at home with my pc.

The main issue i have is with this idea that a netbook will make a good ebook read for 90% of people most of time it won't. The idea of holding a big chunky netbook like a book just does not do it for me even it had an E-ink like screen for reading. I can't think of what could be done to a netbook to make it my ideal device for reading books on so i hope companies will continue to make dedicated devices for a long time to come.

[ilovejedd]

Originally Posted by kuliand

The main issue i have is with this idea that a netbook will make a good ebook read for 90% of people most of time it won't. The idea of holding a big chunky netbook like a book just does not do it for me even it had an E-ink like screen for reading.

I have a feeling you have it the other way around. Avid readers would likely prefer dedicated e-ink devices, maybe even 100% of them (at least the ones who read ebooks and are not married to paperbooks), but I seriously don't think that's equivalent to 90% of the general populace. Just in case it's escaped your attention, avid readers are not the mainstream.

Also, you don't need to read in portrait mode (albeit, being able to do so is useful when reading comics/manga on a tiny screen). You can just read in landscape with the netbook sitting on your lap or desk. For casual readers, that probably works well enough.

[dmaul1114]

Originally Posted by John Bailey

Agreed. Next time, ask two further questions.
1) Have they used an e-reader with an e-ink display for more than five minutes?
2) Do they read anything other than manuals and text books?

Of the people who think a netbook is just as good, I'd bet most will answer no to both questions.

Again, question 2 is the real key, and you're right that most (especially younger folks) would say know.

People are increasingly busy in today's society and people are just more likely to throw on the TV for an hour or watch a movie etc. than devote several hours to reading a book. Plus after a long, hard day at work and coming home exhausted it's just hard to get motivated to read anything.

Again, the point is that avid readers--which you have to be to bother even considering buying a dedicated e-reader--are a niche.

If e-books are ever going to sell to more than that niche, it will be through having ebook stores accessible on multifunction devices (like the Kindle store already is with the iPhone and iPod touch) so the casual readers who just read a few books a year can start buying some ebooks on devices they already own for other, non-reading purposes.

Originally Posted by ilovejedd

I have a feeling you have it the other way around. Avid readers would likely prefer dedicated e-ink devices, maybe even 100% of them (at least the ones who read ebooks and are not married to paperbooks), but I seriously don't think that's equivalent to 90% of the general populace. Just in case it's escaped your attention, avid readers are not the mainstream.

Exactly. I think many here, as they love reading (and skew older), just don't realize how much it continues to decline with each successive generation as interest wanes and free time shrinks.

Hell, I have a Kindle and I pretty much will never choose to read if I could be watching a movie, TV show or sporting event that I really want to see. And most of my friends (and it's a highly educated set with master's and Ph Ds as a result of working in academia) read way less than I do.

[TallMomof2]

I'm generally against all in one devices particularly if I heavily use a specific function. But I would use a smart phone since I dislike Verizon's dumb ones. I even have a Canon multifunction printer but I don't heavily scan or print so it makes sense to combine those functions.

<An aside> My Canon multifunction printer died yesterday, I called tech support and after going through a few hoops a replacement was sent. Received that replacement this morning and sent the broken back. That's excellent service.

Back on topic...

My personal preference is to have a dedicated reading device *until* such time as the tech improves to give me color eInk or similar tech with long battery life and low weight.

[Jaime_Astorga]

My personal preference is to have a dedicated reading device *until* such time as the tech improves to give me color eInk or similar tech with long battery life and low weight.

Even when at such a time, the dedicated reading device would probably be cheaper?