Amazon and DRM changes

[issybird]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Considering the number of posters who seem surprised that someone is not able to borrow Amazon format ebooks from their local library? Chauvinism works both ways.

My point, which was in my post that you didn’t quote, is that one should avoid making disparaging comments about other nationalities; stick to condeming the behavior. Especially in cases where you’re using the behavior to make the disparaging comment when in might not even be relevant in the particular instance.

[Graham44]

Originally Posted by issybird

My point, which was in my post that you didn’t quote, is that one should avoid making disparaging comments about other nationalities; stick to condeming the behavior. Especially in cases where you’re using the behavior to make the disparaging comment when in might not even be relevant in the particular instance.

Although I don't agree or disagree with Rhooo's comment I can see what they mean. I read it as not so much a comment on the advice on this site but the fact that when you do a web search for alternatives to Amazon for ebooks you get loads of sites towards the top of the results saying things like you can get ebooks for free, visit your library! and variations on that theme, but because of the nature of the internet the results are very American-centric and don't apply to a lot of countries.

Rhooo was also answering busatcap 5 worded comment go visit a library then, whilst very concise just doesn't work in a lot of countries.

That's just the way I read it anyway

[Quoth]

And in Ireland there is no long tail on the ebooks (publisher rules) So when you learn about a series maybe the books #1 to #3 are gone. Also doesn't work on any non-Android eink, and probably not easily on Android eink. You need an Android app. Or a working ADE client and gadget registered to it (which doesn't work on all content and mostly won't work on Linux or older Window) and only some eink ereaders in some countries.

The physical library might have some classic fiction, but otherwise only latest popular fiction. Too few non-fiction and often poor. Due to budget constraints only open office hours Mon-Fri and no unaccompanied kids if there is only one librarian (safegarding kids). But hey, it's free to anyone with a local address (proof of address needed and only application in person), inc online audio books, magazines and newspapers as well as ebooks.

So not kid friendly, no good for research and only really current titles. But Authors get a per loan royalty! Also they can't buy retail books, S/H books or accept donated books. You can request a physical book and they might even buy it if no other branch in Ireland has it, and it's deemed suitable.

But better value than KU. or Kobo plus.

So mostly I buy books / ebooks or do without. I gave up on the Library ebooks when their app stopped working on the Android eink (still works on an ancient phone with same Android version). Most people read on phones or tablets. The librarians I met had never seen a Kindle, Kobo or eink Android. I showed them all three.
The Library WiFi only works with a Laptop (even Linux) or a regular tablet because it uses a browser based login and your library card details etc. The regular browsers on the Androidf eink don't work on it and the Kindle & Kobo can't use WiFi via Browser authentication.


Gutenberg is good for free ebooks and the ebook retailers do have freebies. I've one Kindle where the account has no payment method (setup with a gift card!) and it does work for free Kindle ebooks, even though DL & T has gone.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by Quoth

And in Ireland [...]

The physical library might have some classic fiction, but otherwise only latest popular fiction. Too few non-fiction and often poor. Due to budget constraints only open office hours Mon-Fri and no unaccompanied kids if there is only one librarian (safegarding kids).

You must be pretty unlucky - I chose a few random Irish library websites and they all had Saturday hours and some had one or two later evening hours in the week also. A few also have the My Open Library system where you can gain access to your library until 10pm with a keycard.

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by Graham44

Although I don't agree or disagree with Rhooo's comment I can see what they mean. I read it as not so much a comment on the advice on this site but the fact that when you do a web search for alternatives to Amazon for ebooks you get loads of sites towards the top of the results saying things like you can get ebooks for free, visit your library! and variations on that theme, but because of the nature of the internet the results are very American-centric and don't apply to a lot of countries.

Rhooo was also answering busatcap 5 worded comment go visit a library then, whilst very concise just doesn't work in a lot of countries.

That's just the way I read it anyway

The way I'm reading it:

• wisdomnknowledge wrote: "I want knowledge for free"
• bustacap wrote: "go visit a library then"
• Rhoooo wrote: ... "I'm really not a fan of westerners (usually Americans, at that) offering libraries as this miracle solution for reading"
• Spoiler:

  Originally Posted by wisdomnknowledge

  ... The people make it pay-to-play for getting knowledge. It disgusts me how the people value money more than knowledge ... I want knowledge for free ...

  Originally Posted by bustacap

  go visit a library then

  Originally Posted by Rhooo

  Not the quoted poster, but I'm really not a fan of westerners (usually Americans, at that) offering libraries as this miracle solution for reading ...

What troubles me here is the position that "knowledge" in the form of books should be free, which in turn suggests authors should do their work for free, then add the dismissal of libraries (where authors do get paid and books are free), which leaves us ... where?

This sounds too much like the justification often used for piracy. But, of course, no one on MobileRead would suggest piracy, right? Because we all value the work of authors and think they deserve to be paid for their work, right?

And while I know there are a lot of haters out there when it comes publishers and booksellers (especially Amazon), and while I'm not a fan of some of what they do (DRM, I am looking at you), I'm going to go out on a limb and say publishers and booksellers also deserve to be compensated for the work they do <ducks and runs for cover>.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by odamizu

What troubles me here is the position that "knowledge" in the form of books should be free, which in turn suggests authors should do their work for free, then add the dismissal of libraries (where authors do get paid and books are free), which leaves us ... where?

Hmm... you did read Rhoooo's post in its entirety, didn't you? They didn't dismiss libraries because they're against them for some reason, but because libraries are next to useless in their country, especially for someone who'd rather read ebooks instead of paper.

[odamizu]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Hmm... you did read Rhoooo's post in its entirety, didn't you? They didn't dismiss libraries because they're against them for some reason, but because libraries are next to useless in their country, especially for someone who'd rather read ebooks instead of paper.

Yes, I read Rhooo's post in it's entirety. And as you say, they dismiss libraries because they are useless in their country.

I agree, if libraries are useless in your country, they are, well, useless and are justifiably dismissed. But justifiably dismissed still means libraries are being dismissed. Add that to "information should be free" and I'm not liking where that's heading.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by odamizu

Yes, I read Rhooo's post in it's entirety. And as you say, they dismiss libraries because they are useless in their country.

I agree, if libraries are useless in your country, they are, well, useless and are justifiably dismissed. But justifiably dismissed still means libraries are being dismissed. Add that to "information should be free" and I'm not liking where that's heading.

To be fair, it was another poster who insisted that knowledge should be free. Rhooo didn't say they supported that view. They only said they're not a fan of people in the West always recommending libraries to all and sundry. Which I understand perfectly, because the library situation is much the same in my country too. And I also find it irritating sometimes that if someone complains about high ebook prices, DRM or the like, they're often told to get the book from the library. Nope, I can't get it from the library and neither can many other people. That doesn't mean we think all information should be free.

[Graham44]

I did find myself coming across the same advice of 'and you can borrow e-books for free from your library' a lot in articles when I was looking at alternatives to Amazon after deleting my Amazon account, and I did check my local library here in the UK (which is one of the bigger libraries in my county) and the e-book offering was poor to say the least (and I'm being generous)

On a side note (but somewhat related) with a caveat: I know everyones economic position is different and I wouldn't presume to know what anyone else would consider 'affordable' but I thought I would have a look at three random books from my physical bookshelves and three random books from Hive and Kobo and compare the price; It just so happened that all three random books from my shelves all cost £6.99 (weird!) - three random e-books at Hive - £8.99, £2.49 and £3.99; three random e-books from Kobo - £4.99, £2.49 and £3.00. That very un-scientific experiment would suggest that at least 'books' (as in e-books) seem to be cheaper now we have e-books, so that's something I guess??*

*Of course this only applies to the UK where I live it could be very different somewhere else in the world.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Graham44

*Of course this only applies to the UK where I live it could be very different somewhere else in the world.

It is. Books, both paper and digital, are expensive in my country (the price is always in two digits for paper and usually in two digits for ebook, and it doesn't come down later either, unless the store wants to get rid of their stock - not applicable to ebooks, of course). And as I can't read library books on my Kobos, I rarely read books in my native language. Most of my reading is in English, where books are much cheaper (generally, that is - even if a new release is expensive, it usually will be discounted after a while).

[Graham44]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

It is. Books, both paper and digital, are expensive in my country (the price is always in two digits for paper and usually in two digits for ebook, and it doesn't come down later either, unless the store wants to get rid of their stock - not applicable to ebooks, of course). And as I can't read library books on my Kobos, I rarely read books in my native language. Most of my reading is in English, where books are much cheaper (generally, that is - even if a new release is expensive, it usually will be discounted after a while).

Do you think they are more expensive because they've been translated or is it just pure profiteering?

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Graham44

Do you think they are more expensive because they've been translated or is it just pure profiteering?

Small market. The books by Estonian authors are just as expensive.

[Graham44]

Originally Posted by Sirtel

Small market. The books by Estonian authors are just as expensive.

Just looked up Estonia population - London alone has nearly 8X the amount of people as the whole of Estonia Think I'm going to move to Estonia!

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by Graham44

Just looked up Estonia population - London alone has nearly 8X the amount of people as the whole of Estonia Think I'm going to move to Estonia!

Ah, but look who one of the neighbours is. Someone that would extinguish Estonian if they could, though they failed for 45 years.

[Sirtel]

Originally Posted by Graham44

Just looked up Estonia population - London alone has nearly 8X the amount of people as the whole of Estonia Think I'm going to move to Estonia!

Yeah, it's pretty uncrowded here.