looking at a new kindle paper white need advice

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by John F

Strange that this hasn't come out with all the talk about overdrive library/ebook borrowing?

As a counter example:

https://www.reddit.com/r/LibbyApp/co...nd_my_library/

I got the cost information from a discussion with an American library representative presenting as part of a panel at an ERAC conference (now Focused Education??) Much like the fees paid to Overdrive by libraries, the user can remain blissfully unaware of the costs.

Originally Posted by John F

And it is interesting that there are concerns about privacy and ebook library loans, for example Canada, but library loans through Kobo are fine in Canada (and the U.K.)

I am not forced to use the library loan fulfillment through Kobo so it's a personal choice. ADE and the ACSM plugin for calibre remain viable options for getting library loans to my Kobos. An American borrowing from a Kindle format ebook from a library is forced to fulfill the loan through Amazon and from what I've read and been told, Amazon uses information about library loans to target their marketing. You may be unable to see the difference between an, hopefully, informed choice and being forced to take Hobson's choice.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DNSB

...



I am not forced to use the library loan fulfillment through Kobo so it's a personal choice. ADE and the ACSM plugin for calibre remain viable options for getting library loans to my Kobos. An American borrowing from a Kindle format ebook from a library is forced to fulfill the loan through Amazon and from what I've read and been told, Amazon uses information about library loans to target their marketing. You may be unable to see the difference between an, hopefully, informed choice and being forced to take Hobson's choice.

Nice that mommy decides to remove even a Hobson's choice.

So the choice is if you want to borrow ebooks from a library (in one of those countries), your only choice is a epub ereader? Isn't that a Hobson's choice?

[DNSB]

Epub is a publicly disclosed standard and changes to it are done in the full view of the public—well, those who can stay awake reading through the discussions.

OTOH, Amazon does not release information on their proprietary formats and does their best to keep making changes to make it harder to handle their formats outside of Amazon's walled garden. Ask @jhowell who supports several KFX plugins for calibre. A minimal search will show many instances where people have borrowed a library book which was fulfilled by Amazon and received emails based on thos loans. At this time, OverDrive, for instance, has not been caught using information about library patrons' reading choices for their profit.

Heck, Amazon thinks so little of their ebook formats, that the two preferred formats for KDP are DOCX and ePub with mobi being removed from the list a while back. No eating their own dogfood.

I will admit finding your claim about libraries outside of the USA taking away choices to be a bit risible. Your original argument was, at best, feeble so you attempt to move the goal posts by—IMHO, falsely—claiming that the only option for reading a library book outside the USA is an epub reader. Perhaps your local libraries do not allow you to read online? Around here, most of the library ebooks show as OverDrive Read so you can read it in your favourite web browser. Many of the local libraries also offer ereader kits that can be checked out by patrons.

Out of curiosity, do any of your local libraries have a privacy officer?

[John F]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Epub is a publicly disclosed standard and changes to it are done in the full view of the public—well, those who can stay awake reading through the discussions.

OTOH, Amazon does not release information on their proprietary formats and does their best to keep making changes to make it harder to handle their formats outside of Amazon's walled garden. Ask @jhowell who supports several KFX plugins for calibre. A minimal search will show many instances where people have borrowed a library book which was fulfilled by Amazon and received emails based on thos loans. At this time, OverDrive, for instance, has not been caught using information about library patrons' reading choices for their profit.

Heck, Amazon thinks so little of their ebook formats, that the two preferred formats for KDP are DOCX and ePub with mobi being removed from the list a while back. No eating their own dogfood.

Strange, you talk about moving the goal posts, and then you come up with the above non sequitor rant.

I will admit finding your claim about libraries outside of the USA taking away choices to be a bit risible. Your original argument was, at best, feeble so you attempt to move the goal posts by—IMHO, falsely—claiming that the only option for reading a library book outside the USA is an epub reader. Perhaps your local libraries do not allow you to read online? Around here, most of the library ebooks show as OverDrive Read so you can read it in your favourite web browser. Many of the local libraries also offer ereader kits that can be checked out by patrons.

Strange, you bring up Hobson's Choice, and then think that people who own Kindles want to read online or borrow ereader kits.

Out of curiosity, do any of your local libraries have a privacy officer?

We have smallish local libraries, so I would guess there is no privacy officer, or no dedicated privacy officer.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by John F

Strange, you talk about moving the goal posts, and then you come up with the above non sequitor rant.

Strange that you feel that pointing out that ePub is an open standard whereas Amazon's formats are proprietary and subject to change without notice is a rant.

Originally Posted by John F

Strange, you bring up Hobson's Choice, and then think that people who own Kindles want to read online or borrow ereader kits.

Strange that you consider being able to read an ebook online or being able to borrow an ereader kit as not being choices. That they are choices that you might not want to make does not make them non-choices.

Originally Posted by John F

We have smallish local libraries, so I would guess there is no privacy officer, or no dedicated privacy officer.

Perhaps you should find out. Around here, if you want to find out what books a user has been checking out, be prepared to bring a court order for very specific information. Freely handing over that information to a foreign corporation is not an option.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Strange that you feel that pointing out that ePub is an open standard whereas Amazon's formats are proprietary and subject to change without notice is a rant.

When we are talking about library loaning, it is a rant. And moving the goal posts. And a non sequitor.

Strange that you consider being able to read an ebook online or being able to borrow an ereader kit as not being choices. That they are choices that you might not want to make does not make them non-choices.

So for users who own a Kindle, and want to read with their Kindle. There is only one choice: don't read with their Kindle: your Hobons's Choice. Or maybe we should coin a new term, DNSB's Choice.

What's next, recommend that they check out a pbook?

Perhaps you should find out. Around here, if you want to find out what books a user has been checking out, be prepared to bring a court order for very specific information. Freely handing over that information to a foreign corporation is not an option.

Perhaps, I shouldn't. I tend to think that people should be able to make their own decisions: if you don't want Amazon to know what you are reading, don't use a Kindle. If you don't want Kobo to know what you are using, don't use a Kobo.

[JSWolf]

Outside of the US, Overdrive does not loan Kindle eBooks. So if you want to read on an eInk screen, you'd need a Reader that is able to handle ePub with Adobe DRM. That does leave out Kindles.

[John F]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Outside of the US, Overdrive does not loan Kindle eBooks. So if you want to read on an eInk screen, you'd need a Reader that is able to handle ePub with Adobe DRM. That does leave out Kindles.

Or strip the DRM.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by John F

When we are talking about library loaning, it is a rant. And moving the goal posts. And a non sequitor.

Methinks someone does not know what a non sequitur is. Nor do I feel that what I have written could be seen as loud, wild and/or impassioned.

Originally Posted by John F

So for users who own a Kindle, and want to read with their Kindle. There is only one choice: don't read with their Kindle: your Hobons's Choice. Or maybe we should coin a new term, DNSB's Choice.

Your logic is rather strange. That a choice you desire does not exist even with quite a few American libraries does not make other choices non-existent.

Originally Posted by John F

What's next, recommend that they check out a pbook?

Since ebooks were specified and, for me, the selection of large print books is not that great, I deliberately left out that option.

Originally Posted by John F

Perhaps, I shouldn't. I tend to think that people should be able to make their own decisions: if you don't want Amazon to know what you are reading, don't use a Kindle. If you don't want Kobo to know what you are using, don't use a Kobo.

I don't really care about who knows what I am reading otherwise I would change my book shopping pattern. What I care about is that information being used for advertising for items other than ebooks. If I read a book on home wine making, I don't mind getting recommendations for similar books. I do mind getting multiple emails about purchasing a home wine making kit.

Getting back to library loans and choices, tell us about your experience borrowing Amazon published ebooks from your local library.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DNSB

...
Getting back to library loans and choices, tell us about your experience borrowing Amazon published ebooks from your local library.

No thank you.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by John F

Or strip the DRM.

Some Overdrive eBooks do not have DRM. But for those who do not strip DRM, Overdrive eBooks with DRM have to be read on something other then a Kindle (outside the US).

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by DNSB

Getting back to library loans and choices, tell us about your experience borrowing Amazon published ebooks from your local library.

Originally Posted by John F

No thank you.

And why not? After your whinging about Kindle format loans not being available outside the USA taking away your freedom of choice, it would appear that you are borrowing ebooks from your local library on a regular basis. Yet oddly enough, you do not want to share your experiences borrowing Amazon published ebooks from your local library. Do you find it easy? Moderately difficult? Totally impossible?

[Quoth]

I suspect that once KU outstrips regular library loans in USA that Amazon will totally drop support.

Are Amazon published (rather than KDP Select) ebooks available in any library anywhere other than Amazon's own subscription based KU loan system?

There is no subscription for Irish libraries at all. Paper books, ebooks, and electronic magazines, papers & comics. You just need a verified local address.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DNSB

And why not? ...

Because I don't think that we are Typical Kindle Users. I am trying to think of what a Typical Kindle User would want. I do not think what I do/want is the same as what a Typical Kindle User does/wants.

I would think that a Typical Kindle User wants to read their library books on their Kindle. I would guess that some Kindle Users don't want to share their reading habits with Amazon, but outside of MR, I would guess that that is a small subset of Kindle Users.

Does a Kindle User have a choice to read library ebooks, sure. Would a Typical Kindle User want to read the majority of their library loans on a Kindle, I would guess yes.

[Quoth]

The typical Kindle ebook user actually uses an app, not an eink Kindle.