Amazon and DRM changes

[ottischwenk]

Originally Posted by GeorgK

What is an old Kindle? On Ebay they are all named 'Kindle Paperwhite'...

Ich habe mir vor ca 2 Jahren einen Kindle 4 angeschafft.
Frage hier nach (da gibts welche), vor allem, ob das Gerät vom Kindle Konto abgeeldet und fürs Anmelden noch funktionsfähig ist.

[Pajamaman]

How quickly can Amazon generate new DRM? What do amazon have to do to implement new DRM? New FW version that users have to install?
How quickly can an army of community programmers with AI crack said new DRM versions? It could get interesting.

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

How quickly can Amazon generate new DRM? What do amazon have to do to implement new DRM? New FW version that users have to install?
How quickly can an army of community programmers with AI crack said new DRM versions? It could get interesting.

See this post. tl;dr: There's at least 40 known implementations of KFX encryption, and they've only gotten up to v11 so far.

[ownedbycats]

Something I hadn't thought of till now: A month or two ago, a relatively major shadow library got their domains seized after it went viral on TikTok and caught the attention of the Authors Guild and then the FBI (good job, TikTok users). I half-wonder if Amazon might be responding to this.

[jonathan2022]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Something I hadn't thought of till now: A month or two ago, a relatively major shadow library got their domains seized after it went viral on TikTok and caught the attention of the Authors Guild and then the FBI (good job, TikTok users). I half-wonder if Amazon might be responding to this.

i thought so too. it is odd that they are doing all this now. but also i did see ebook sales were down for 2022 i think. this wont help it. as people who were buying and then moving to other devices or backing up will stop buying. it must be a big enough number that they would invest all this time with. or maybe just pressure from publishers. these work around have been around for a while now . its a double edge sword doing this. especially if people start leaving. or numbers dont increase

[stumped]

What's a shadow library?

[ownedbycats]

Originally Posted by stumped

What's a shadow library?

Pirated books.

[John F]

Amazon has implemented around 40 different DRM algorithms for KFX. They are built into the various Kindle apps and device firmware as highly obfuscated code.

Each algorithm is identified with the letter V followed by a number. So far DeDRM handles V1 though V10. Amazon is currently using V11, which DeDRM attempts to decrypt but does not do correctly.

As things stand now anyone who does figure out how to defeat the current V11 DRM has a strong incentive to keep it to themself. Keeping it quiet would mean that at least they could make use of it. Making it known to the world would just result in Amazon switching to V12, causing all of that hard work to be for nothing.

In order to defeat KFX DRM in DeDRM all of the thirty or so remaining DRM algorithms would need to be reverse engineered. If any are gotten wrong, which is likely without a way to test them properly, Amazon would immediately use that one for now and then keep adding more new ones over time.

Even if someone managed to get all of the algorithms correct, DRM removal would only work until Amazon deployed software with more new algorithms and blocked downloads to the older software.

I'm going to try and be optimistic. If Amazon continues to close the DRM holes,people will take up the challenge to find new holes.

[rantanplan]

Originally Posted by John F

I'm going to try and be optimistic. If Amazon continues to close the DRM holes,people will take up the challenge to find new holes.

I'm going to be realistic here, nobody will care about it if they can use Kobo etc instead and brake their DRM schemes for piracy.

[mitra1]

Originally Posted by John F

I'm going to try and be optimistic. If Amazon continues to close the DRM holes,people will take up the challenge to find new holes.

I never have known anti drm for apple books. So it's realistic that DRM will remain incrackable.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by John F

I'm going to try and be optimistic. If Amazon continues to close the DRM holes,people will take up the challenge to find new holes.

The ultimate hole has existed for years, either screen shots on PC or camera image of ereader, with automated page turn, then either image PDF or OCR. Or paper ARCs scanned. DRM is a scam.

[stumped]

Originally Posted by ownedbycats

Pirated books.

ok - i googled it - Z-ilbrary

taken down by the same FBI team who had nothing better to do than take down lots of soccer streaming sites last week, probably
[ off topic but I read something on reddit that the qatar world cup was the 1st time that >100 americans watched the USA soccer team for free, so FBI had to intervene ]

if its anything like the soccer takedown, it would take all of 10 minutes to find some new not-quite-Z library offering the exact same thing, still working.

after all, they still have not quite killed pirate bay clones despite years of trying

& i read the counter argument that Z provided essential research materials in countries where a legit academic subscription costs several years wages, but that's a debate for a different forum.

meanwhile, back with amazon, I wonder if one reason they are aggresively marketing KU free trials again is because less people are buying, with all the DRM added hassles

[jhowell]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

How quickly can Amazon generate new DRM?

In the past Amazon has responded to KFX DRM being cracked by immediately switching to an already implemented DRM variant that was already part of the Kindle reading software. They then follow up a few months later by releasing new software that includes more new DRM variants. So far Amazon has kept well ahead of the efforts to crack recent KFX DRM.

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

What do amazon have to do to implement new DRM? New FW version that users have to install?

If someone is able to crack ALL of the existing KFX DRM variants then it would probably take Amazon a few months to release new software that adds new DRM, maybe less if they have it already coded and ready to go. Then there would be time needed for rollout. Finally the older software that has cracked DRM would need to be banned from use in order to close it up completely. That could take a year or more.

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

How quickly can an army of community programmers with AI crack said new DRM versions? It could get interesting.

There isn't much motivation for anyone to work on this as long as methods exist to avoid KFX entirely. As Amazon continues to close up the gaps in obtaining their older formats that motivation will grow.

As far as I know there is no coordinated group working on this. There are only rare individuals with both the skill to crack the DRM and the desire to release it publicly.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Quoth

The ultimate hole has existed for years, either screen shots on PC or camera image of ereader, with automated page turn, then either image PDF or OCR. Or paper ARCs scanned. DRM is a scam.

If those were the only holes available, I would guess there would be more motivation to crack DRM.

[stumped]

Originally Posted by stumped

ok - i googled it - Z-ilbrary



if its anything like the soccer takedown, it would take all of 10 minutes to find some new not-quite-Z library offering the exact same thing, still working.

update: make that 5 in 5 minutes

and on the way i saw this interesting title
"Shadow Libraries: Access to Knowledge in Global Higher Education"

if only i had a shadow library membership, I could be reading that
also available in Kindle
https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Shadow-Li...s%2C102&sr=8-3