Newbie question on all this Amazon DRM stuff - Page 8

AnemicOak · 03-26-2009, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwaldron

If I couldn't strip DRM or purchase books without DRM, I wouldn't have purchased a reading device.

Same for me.

Quote:

I would not have purchased a Kindle without being able to read my existing library of hundreds of previously purchased Mobi (and eReader, for that matter) books.

Again, same here.

Alisa · 03-26-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Well, he could be remembered as the killer of electronic book readers. If I was looking at a Kindle for the first time now, and knew that I would be restricted to Amazon and purchase of books (no library), I would stick with pbooks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwaldron

As would I. If I couldn't strip DRM or purchase books without DRM, I wouldn't have purchased a reading device.

I would not have purchased a Kindle without being able to read my existing library of hundreds of previously purchased Mobi (and eReader, for that matter) books.

These seem like two different cases here. The library hack was neither explicitly allowed or forbidden by Amazon. They just never commented on it. Now, they are trying to keep people from getting KindlePID.py. You can still get these scripts. Amazon has just said that they don't want you to.

DRM removal has always been against the ToS (and of questionable legality). So from day one you're making the decision to disregard Amazon's rules.

catsittingstill · 03-27-2009, 08:57 PM

Don't get me wrong; I hate DRM as much as anyone (well, maybe not as much as some people, but as much as most people).

But Kindles, as devices, read files with DRM, but also work with files without DRM. So isn't that the same as pretty much every e-book reader on the planet? (I'm genuinely ignorant about the Sony and the Cybook and so on in this regard, so if I'm wrong and most e-book readers won't read files with DRM, feel free to point this out.)

But given that, isn't our beef more with the Amazon e-books that have DRM? (Like there are Sony e-books that have DRM and Fictionwise e-books that have DRM and so on?)

If that's the case, I would think there's no reason to feel like a leper for wanting a Kindle of whichever type. Get the Kindle and buy DRM-free e-books where they are available. If you can square it with your conscience, buy DRMed ones when you can't get DRM-free. (Goodness knows I do.)

Sydney's Mom · 03-27-2009, 11:13 PM

I was probably dumber than most when I bought the kindle. I thought an ebook was an ebook. I thought the only difference between kindle and sony was the wireless if you bought from amazon. I thought sony just couldn't use wireless to buy amazon books. And all I asked the librarian was whether they offerred ebooks.

I have probably bought less than 5 books (I have bought several hundred) from sellers other than amazon. But amazon's actions with kindlepid opened my eyes to just how vulnerable I am. A month ago, I said I did not intend to ever buy a pbook. Now, the pbook looks a lot better.

Alisa · 03-27-2009, 11:19 PM

I don't think you were dumber than most. I don't think you were dumb at all. You just assumed that the systems in place would make sense and they don't.

Sydney's Mom · 03-30-2009, 10:16 PM

"Yeah, what the DRM issue means to you, and to everyone else, is this - it is illegal for you to convert a Kindle-format e-book to another format. Even if you paid $10 for the ebook and own it legally. Even if you just want to read it on another gadget that you also own. Even if the Kindle goes out of production. It is never, ever, ever OK for you to decrypt an encrypted file. Moreover, it is never, ever, ever OK for you to have on your computer any application that can decrypt an encrypted file. That is copyright infringement.

I ran into this issue with my PalmPilot when I had a nasty case of eyestrain and couldn't read my ebooks on the screen. I wanted to print them out so I could read them on the page (which is what I did with my plain-text ebooks). But because they were eReader files, I could not print them out without breaking the DRM, which is illegal."

Yes, and it is illegal to jaywalk, go 1 mph over the speed limit, cross a solid white line, copy a personal document on your work copier, put a pen from the office in your pocket, . . . .

I guess I just don't aspire to being perfect. Good thing, cause I ain't even close!

kevindorsey · 04-01-2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alisa

These seem like two different cases here. The library hack was neither explicitly allowed or forbidden by Amazon. They just never commented on it. Now, they are trying to keep people from getting KindlePID.py. You can still get these scripts. Amazon has just said that they don't want you to.

DRM removal has always been against the ToS (and of questionable legality). So from day one you're making the decision to disregard Amazon's rules.

Well, Amazon is sort of making a decision to disregard common sense and logic and consumer opinion with the DRM, so I have no guilt in not following their TOS on this

Alisa · 04-01-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevindorsey

Well, Amazon is sort of making a decision to disregard common sense and logic and consumer opinion with the DRM, so I have no guilt in not following their TOS on this

I don't think either case is morally wrong. I personally strip DRM off all my purchases for archival purposes. I was merely pointing out that they were different.

03-30-2009, 10:16 PM	#111
Sydney's Mom Wizard Posts: 2,896 Karma: 6995721 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Idaho, on the side of a mountain Device: Kindle Oasis, Fire 3d Gen and 5th Gen and Samsung Tab S	"Yeah, what the DRM issue means to you, and to everyone else, is this - it is illegal for you to convert a Kindle-format e-book to another format. Even if you paid $10 for the ebook and own it legally. Even if you just want to read it on another gadget that you also own. Even if the Kindle goes out of production. It is never, ever, ever OK for you to decrypt an encrypted file. Moreover, it is never, ever, ever OK for you to have on your computer any application that can decrypt an encrypted file. That is copyright infringement. I ran into this issue with my PalmPilot when I had a nasty case of eyestrain and couldn't read my ebooks on the screen. I wanted to print them out so I could read them on the page (which is what I did with my plain-text ebooks). But because they were eReader files, I could not print them out without breaking the DRM, which is illegal." Yes, and it is illegal to jaywalk, go 1 mph over the speed limit, cross a solid white line, copy a personal document on your work copier, put a pen from the office in your pocket, . . . . I guess I just don't aspire to being perfect. Good thing, cause I ain't even close! Last edited by Sydney's Mom; 03-30-2009 at 10:19 PM.

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03-27-2009, 08:57 PM	#108
catsittingstill Guru Posts: 643 Karma: 551634 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle 1.0.8, iPod Touch, Kindle Keyboard	Don't get me wrong; I hate DRM as much as anyone (well, maybe not as much as some people, but as much as most people). But Kindles, as devices, read files with DRM, but also work with files without DRM. So isn't that the same as pretty much every e-book reader on the planet? (I'm genuinely ignorant about the Sony and the Cybook and so on in this regard, so if I'm wrong and most e-book readers won't read files with DRM, feel free to point this out.) But given that, isn't our beef more with the Amazon e-books that have DRM? (Like there are Sony e-books that have DRM and Fictionwise e-books that have DRM and so on?) If that's the case, I would think there's no reason to feel like a leper for wanting a Kindle of whichever type. Get the Kindle and buy DRM-free e-books where they are available. If you can square it with your conscience, buy DRMed ones when you can't get DRM-free. (Goodness knows I do.)

03-27-2009, 11:13 PM	#109
Sydney's Mom Wizard Posts: 2,896 Karma: 6995721 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Idaho, on the side of a mountain Device: Kindle Oasis, Fire 3d Gen and 5th Gen and Samsung Tab S	I was probably dumber than most when I bought the kindle. I thought an ebook was an ebook. I thought the only difference between kindle and sony was the wireless if you bought from amazon. I thought sony just couldn't use wireless to buy amazon books. And all I asked the librarian was whether they offerred ebooks. I have probably bought less than 5 books (I have bought several hundred) from sellers other than amazon. But amazon's actions with kindlepid opened my eyes to just how vulnerable I am. A month ago, I said I did not intend to ever buy a pbook. Now, the pbook looks a lot better.

03-27-2009, 11:19 PM	#110
Alisa Gadget Geek Posts: 2,324 Karma: 22221 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: Paperwhite, Kindle 3 (retired), Skindle 1.2 (retired)	I don't think you were dumber than most. I don't think you were dumb at all. You just assumed that the systems in place would make sense and they don't.