Are E-ink devices still a thing? - Page 2

barryem · 08-12-2020, 07:38 PM

I mostly read on my phone even though I have a couple of Paperwhites. The reason is size. It's always in my shirt pocket and I never know when I'll have a few minutes to read and the Kindle is too big to carry with me unless I'm pretty sure I'll be reading.

However, I think e-ink is probably the future of reading. The problem is that for people like me there just aren't good, affordable choices in a pocket size ereader. Hopefully that will change.

My hope is that companies like Amazon and Kobo and B&N will give up on ereaders and other companies will start making them and compete with the devices, not with the books they want to sell. That's when we'll be able to get choices that match our varied needs.

I hear a lot of complaints that ereaders are diminishing because there aren't the big advances that we're used to in tech but there's a difference: ereaders have already been pretty much perfected. They work just the way we want them to work. Kind of like books.

Phones, computers, tablets are new in the world and they're advancing rapidly and we expect that for all tech. But books aren't new. There've been books since long before Gutenberg. There have been a few major advances in books but not many. One was the printing press and the most recent is the ereader. It's not something new. It's not technology bringing us something we haven't had before. It's just a new way of doing the same old thing we've been doing for millenia. Expecting the same things we expect from phones and computers makes no sense.

Barry

MGlitch · 08-12-2020, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But USB-C is not needed and it's better to stick with microUSB.

One day we’re going to find out Jon is getting paid off by micro usb and ereader case sellers. USB C being reversible by default is all the reason needed to drop micro usb.

I’ll go ahead and counter your claim that shoddy usb c cable exists with shoddy micro usb cable exists. It’s not a problem with the connection type.

Deskisamess · 08-12-2020, 08:19 PM

Quote:

USB C being reversible by default is all the reason needed to drop micro usb.

Agreed. It is so much easier to use, especially for those of us of a certain age and those with fine motor issues etc.

theducks · 08-12-2020, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barryem

My hope is that companies like Amazon and Kobo and B&N will give up on ereaders and other companies will start making them and compete with the devices, not with the books they want to sell. That's when we'll be able to get choices that match our varied needs.

Barry

Barry, Amazon is the reason e-Ink reader got cheap. The 'Kodak Model': Sell cheap device and make it on the content.
My 6" Astak was $200 Direct sales only (to keep middleman markup at bay)
Sony was over $300.
Mind you, both just read books. No backlight, WiFi, speakers.
Amazon killed that market, as the were selling 'at high volume materials cost' (I priced a replacement Vizplex display: $85 for my Astak. The price of my K4 which had WiFi and the next gen display)
No wonder other bailed. Nobody else had the volume needed to pull the costs down (I worked for a company that looked into possibly 'cost reducing' e-reader. They couldn't remove enough cost to make it worth while to manufacture)

JSWolf · 08-12-2020, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theducks

Cables are cheap. I have a Multi (USBc, Micro and apple) for my charging locations.
For loading, I have proper cables and a USB Hub.
FWIW, I still have things wit USB Mini

But for USB-C, you cannot just go on price. You have to make sure the cable is properly made.

theducks · 08-12-2020, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But for USB-C, you cannot just go on price. You have to make sure the cable is properly made.

I have had cheaper stuff that was 'properly constructed' and over hyped models that were obvious (once I got my hands on it) junk.
Loading descriptions with 'keywords' (even when they don't directly describe the product), is very common these days (and leaving out stuff that does matter).

DNSB · 08-12-2020, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theducks

Amazon is the reason e-Ink reader got cheap.

Really? I vaguely seem to remember that in 2010 when I bought my first Kobo, it was $149 Cdn. compared to the Kindle at $259 US (at that time, the Canadian dollar was worth about 5% less than the United States dollar). Shortly after B&N dropped the price of the Nook to $199 US and Sony dropped the price of their low end (PRS-300???) tp $149 US. Amazon responded by dropping the low end Kindle to $189 US. B&N responded by dropping the Nook to $149 US and Amazon announced the new Kindle WiFi would be priced at $139 when it was going to be released in Aug. 2010.

Sorry but that does not seem to agree with your statement that Amazon is the reason that e-Ink readers got cheap.

theducks · 08-12-2020, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DNSB

Really? I vaguely seem to remember that in 2010 when I bought my first Kobo, it was $149 Cdn. compared to the Kindle at $259 US (at that time, the Canadian dollar was worth about 5% less than the United States dollar). Shortly after B&N dropped the price of the Nook to $199 US and Sony dropped the price of their low end (PRS-300???) tp $149 US. Amazon responded by dropping the low end Kindle to $189 US. B&N responded by dropping the Nook to $149 US and Amazon announced the new Kindle WiFi would be priced at $139 when it was going to be released in Aug. 2010.

Sorry but that does not seem to agree with your statement that Amazon is the reason that e-Ink readers got cheap.

It may have been by the 3rd Gen that dropped below US$100.

4691mls · 08-12-2020, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Agreed. It is so much easier to use, especially for those of us of a certain age and those with fine motor issues etc.

It's so nice not to have to remember which way is up on which device!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

People who think phones or tablets are fine for reading most likely aren't reading like I do, or they don't have the vision issues I have. I read on average 3-5 fiction books per week, especially since mid March.

I can't take my glasses off and hold my iPhone or Mini 7" from my eyes in a dark room for 1-2 hours every night. I can do that with my Paperwhite or Oasis, and I could on my Kobo Glo HD.

I hold mine about 12" away, otherwise what you said applies to me too.

j.p.s · 08-12-2020, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4691mls

It's so nice not to have to remember which way is up on which device!

Even when I know which way is up, I sometimes have trouble plugging in microUSB.

Quote:

I hold mine about 12" away, otherwise what you said applies to me too.

My distance is somewhere between 7" and 12", but otherwise the same for me.

haertig · 08-13-2020, 01:10 AM

I recently got a bit excited when I started playing with Moon Reader on my tablet. I've had it for years, used it seldom - mostly for PDF's. Anyway, I started looking at a novel in Moon and was quite impressed with the features. Then I determined, "Hey, my tablet is kind of heavy". Then as I plugged the tablet in I determined, "Hey, I have to charge this thing every few days". And finally, I was trying to look up the weather on my tablet out on the back deck. I couldn't see a thing. I tried moving into the shade, but that only helped a little bit.

I went back to my eReader after that. If all's you want to do is read a book, it's so much better on an eReader IMHO. They just work - anywhere, anytime, and for a long time. I think of using a tablet to read books like using a multi-tool when you can't get to your real tools. Yes, it works in a pinch if there's nothing else available, but it is not something you'd want to use by choice given better tools being available.

Some people will forego their toolbox and keep just a multi-tool. Others may skip the eReader and use their tablet/phone. To each his own. I prefer the dedicated tool, not the "jack of all trades, master of none" device when it comes to reading. If they stop making eReaders, I sure hope mine lasts a good long time.

ottischwenk · 08-13-2020, 02:38 AM

I don't just use EInk for reading books, although it's great for that too.
I use EInk devices in a light environment where I can hardly see anything with color displays.
I use a Boox Poke Pro (6 inch, Android 6, A2 Mode) as a glare-free navigation display in my car: Sygic, WiFi GPS / Glonass from Unihertz Atom (mini Android 9 smartphone), sound via BT car radio.
I use a Likebook Alita (10.3 inch, Android 6, A2 Mode, 512 GB Micro SD) as an outside home (garden, sun) computer: mobile internet via Unihertz Atom.

rcentros · 08-13-2020, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theducks

Barry, Amazon is the reason e-Ink reader got cheap. ...

Not just Amazon, it was a price war between Barnes & Noble, Amazon and then (a little later) Border's/Kobo. But Barnes & Noble actually fired the first shot.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/kindle...ents-to-surge/

Uncle Robin · 08-13-2020, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haertig

If all's you want to do is read a book, it's so much better on an eReader IMHO. They just work - anywhere, anytime, and for a long time.

Very much THIS. Setting aside LCD/OLED vs e-ink, it's the dedicated nature of an e-reader that is the big winner for me. People who read dead tree books don't use those content delivery systems for any other purpose while reading, the e-reader is the same.

Camellia · 08-13-2020, 04:43 AM

I envy the eyes of those who can read for prolonged periods on tablets...

Not only are e-ink devices very much "still a thing", but as a recent convert to this kind of device, there's nothing that beats them for the pure simplicity of curling up with a book -- whether or not I know where I last left my glasses.

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08-12-2020, 07:38 PM	#16
barryem Wizard Posts: 2,459 Karma: 68781975 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Arkansas Device: Paperwhite 4	I mostly read on my phone even though I have a couple of Paperwhites. The reason is size. It's always in my shirt pocket and I never know when I'll have a few minutes to read and the Kindle is too big to carry with me unless I'm pretty sure I'll be reading. However, I think e-ink is probably the future of reading. The problem is that for people like me there just aren't good, affordable choices in a pocket size ereader. Hopefully that will change. My hope is that companies like Amazon and Kobo and B&N will give up on ereaders and other companies will start making them and compete with the devices, not with the books they want to sell. That's when we'll be able to get choices that match our varied needs. I hear a lot of complaints that ereaders are diminishing because there aren't the big advances that we're used to in tech but there's a difference: ereaders have already been pretty much perfected. They work just the way we want them to work. Kind of like books. Phones, computers, tablets are new in the world and they're advancing rapidly and we expect that for all tech. But books aren't new. There've been books since long before Gutenberg. There have been a few major advances in books but not many. One was the printing press and the most recent is the ereader. It's not something new. It's not technology bringing us something we haven't had before. It's just a new way of doing the same old thing we've been doing for millenia. Expecting the same things we expect from phones and computers makes no sense. Barry

08-13-2020, 01:10 AM	#26
haertig Wizard Posts: 1,897 Karma: 31522252 Join Date: Sep 2017 Device: PW3, Fire HD8 Gen7, Moto G7, Sansa Clip v2, Ruizu X26	I recently got a bit excited when I started playing with Moon Reader on my tablet. I've had it for years, used it seldom - mostly for PDF's. Anyway, I started looking at a novel in Moon and was quite impressed with the features. Then I determined, "Hey, my tablet is kind of heavy". Then as I plugged the tablet in I determined, "Hey, I have to charge this thing every few days". And finally, I was trying to look up the weather on my tablet out on the back deck. I couldn't see a thing. I tried moving into the shade, but that only helped a little bit. I went back to my eReader after that. If all's you want to do is read a book, it's so much better on an eReader IMHO. They just work - anywhere, anytime, and for a long time. I think of using a tablet to read books like using a multi-tool when you can't get to your real tools. Yes, it works in a pinch if there's nothing else available, but it is not something you'd want to use by choice given better tools being available. Some people will forego their toolbox and keep just a multi-tool. Others may skip the eReader and use their tablet/phone. To each his own. I prefer the dedicated tool, not the "jack of all trades, master of none" device when it comes to reading. If they stop making eReaders, I sure hope mine lasts a good long time.

08-13-2020, 02:38 AM	#27
ottischwenk Wizard Posts: 2,910 Karma: 3933245 Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Salzburg AT Device: Bigme 3/3, Boox 4/14, Like-/Meebook 2/8, Tolino 1/10, Ki/Ko 0/8	I don't just use EInk for reading books, although it's great for that too. I use EInk devices in a light environment where I can hardly see anything with color displays. I use a Boox Poke Pro (6 inch, Android 6, A2 Mode) as a glare-free navigation display in my car: Sygic, WiFi GPS / Glonass from Unihertz Atom (mini Android 9 smartphone), sound via BT car radio. I use a Likebook Alita (10.3 inch, Android 6, A2 Mode, 512 GB Micro SD) as an outside home (garden, sun) computer: mobile internet via Unihertz Atom.

08-13-2020, 04:43 AM	#30
Camellia She / Her Posts: 48 Karma: 13653962 Join Date: Jul 2020 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Forma	I envy the eyes of those who can read for prolonged periods on tablets... Not only are e-ink devices very much "still a thing", but as a recent convert to this kind of device, there's nothing that beats them for the pure simplicity of curling up with a book -- whether or not I know where I last left my glasses.