Actually Bought A Book

[mdp]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Not sure where you're going with this, or what sort of comment you thought I was making about Japan?

'High tech' and 'civilized' are not synonyms, to me anyway

Sorry for the delay.
The poster that triggered yours wrote he «consider[s] that Japan is a very "hi-tech" country but still having so many bookstores just boggles my mind where people are still reading printed books & buying them».
My answer contained references to your replies but reacted to the grounds of such "boggling". People are still reading printed books and buying them because yes, why not? It depends on those bunny quotes embracing "hi-tech" what the poster thought: "advanced" cannot detrimental to sales; "fatuus" is probably not a faithful image of the Country.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

But they are not the high tech, 'twenty years ahead of the West' dynamo they were in the eighties. From what I've read and watched elsewhere, they think the USA is very high tech.

I would have thought differently considering their GDP curves. In general, I would have considered them "an island": in Artificial Intelligence, I am intrigued on how they developed advanced fuzzy logic systems, that may kind of present them as specialized. In other words, a few elements make me think of them as progressing in directions that may not be adhering to the global ones (happily, still some diversity under the sun).

__

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I dunno. That clerk seems to have me figured out pretty well.

I am in first line to defend the rights of Exploration (vs Exploitation), hence my defence at length in this thread and elsewhere of the Bookstore as the Place, the opportunity, the service, to check what is available.
But Exploration is otium and Exploitation is work, so if somebody comes and ask for that one Java text praised by Gosling it cannot be dreamed that he can be served or proposed a different text, especially not one about Python or C, and especially not a book about honey based pastry or a XIX century feuilleton novel, and especially not a car or a cabbage or a chest of drawers. A proper place can serve you what you want/need. Limited collections are for leisure.

[Quoth]

Originally Posted by mdp

Trivia. "Now selling books in form of vinyl records... Hook the player to your reader to upload the book."

Only on Tablets or phones, ideally using dumb audio adaptor cable, though loudspeaker to microphone does work... at about 300 bps!
I sent a PM. You'd only fit a Novella with few images or a novel with none and no embedded fonts.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by mdp

But Exploration is otium and Exploitation is work, so if somebody comes and ask for that one Java text praised by Gosling it cannot be dreamed that he can be served or proposed a different text, especially not one about Python or C, and especially not a book about honey based pastry or a XIX century feuilleton novel, and especially not a car or a cabbage or a chest of drawers. A proper place can serve you what you want/need. Limited collections are for leisure.

Your example is very specific, but to stick to it, if you are in a store where the clerk is as well versed in Java texts as you are and the clerk is well aware they don't have a copy of James Gosling's preferred book, it is human nature (as well as good business) to try suggesting something they do have in stock.

If I went to a store looking for a copy of Raymond Chandler's The Little Sister, I would far prefer suggestions of other Chandler works or similar authors works that they do have in stock to a flat 'no'. I would think that clerk that did just say no is an unhelpful jerk.

[j.p.s]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Your example is very specific, but to stick to it, if you are in a store where the clerk is as well versed in Java texts as you are and the clerk is well aware they don't have a copy of James Gosling's preferred book, it is human nature (as well as good business) to try suggesting something they do have in stock.

If I went to a store looking for a copy of Raymond Chandler's The Little Sister, I would far prefer suggestions of other Chandler works or similar authors works that they do have in stock to a flat 'no'. I would think that clerk that did just say no is an unhelpful jerk.

Let's say it might be in stock, but the clerk does not know that, and is only able to hand you a 10 page disappearing ink custom for you print out cluttered with listings for gadgets, clothes, videos, and music, and the only way to see whether The Little Sister is in the list is to read each item until you have seen it or got to the end.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by j.p.s

Let's say it might be in stock, but the clerk does not know that, and is only able to hand you a 10 page disappearing ink custom for you print out cluttered with listings for gadgets, clothes, videos, and music, and the only way to see whether The Little Sister is in the list is to read each item until you have seen it or got to the end.

Hey man, it's a free country. You can say whatever you want. But your ludicrous example seemingly has nothing to do with the complaint that started this discussion. To quote:

Originally Posted by mdp

..."You are looking for Orwell, sorry I do not have it but I can sell you Huxley" (and I have witnessed much worse than that.

[mdp]

This should deservedly take some time commenting: I hope in the unfortunately forced rush I will not make a mess, omit, be obscure etc.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Hey man, it's a free country. You can say whatever you want. But your ludicrous example seemingly has nothing to do with the complaint that started this discussion. To quote:

But as in free countries you seemingly always get democratic participation and its obviously apt actors (we would have a problem otherwise): are you sure j.p.s. is throwing words around?
Because I read his intervention as "You [Zod] would like to obtain «suggestions [from an] helpful [un]jerk», and this reinforces the importance of dealing with [free country worthy] well developed human intelligences, in contrast to an Artificial Stupidity generated lure-purposed html page that in its dispersive palette of offers rings of Gruen".
Surely this has to do with the importance of bookstores.
Can it also follow my original complaint against some business models? Well, if you interpret it as the complainer seeing too many "Could I interest you in my few wares?" as opposed to "We strive to offer you the full catalogue", his note may interestingly show how the "Could I interest you" intention may bend the vendor's approach even when their offer really is massive.

I once stumbled into a fashion barber who insisted I should display a mohican, and that defined his range. I have no problem with barber shops that advertise "Every cut to make you look like a fool". But if to that aim you can only do mohicans and razor carved graffiti (maybe, I do not know, only of small cute bubbly animals), your shop is specialized only for people who have leasurly curiosity in haircuts, not for all those who have a professional interest, not even for that slice that professionally is into "haircuts, but specifically those intended to make you look like a fool".

My example was specific because there are two main approaches: finding what you may need and getting what you need. To find what you may need, sure you may buzz around like a bumblebee amongst flowers - but oh how important it is to be in a vast botanic garden. You may get some luck in an ikebana bouquet, but you must be spending time off-duty (otherwise: such search is not efficient). Thing also is, that when eventually you need some selected text, well, it is not that different from "yes, really I wanted to marry that one, not the sister, not the cousin, not the neighbour. If things work well with my choice I may also want to marry her flatmate later - again, not her accountant nor her postman".

I repeat the tale: I am chatting with a clerk in a never-before-visited bookstore of a most major city. This woman comes and asks for a good translation of the I-Ching (so, not even that specific). The clerk says sorry, unfortunately. Sighs fill the air. She has just left, and the clerk turns to me and annoyed goes, his hands agitated against such stiff people "But why does she not buy some some book about cooking, or a crime novel?"
Answer: because she came looking for a good translation of the I-Ching, for her own respectable personal business, instead of purposelessly wandering to cleanse from the load of the business itself.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Your example is very specific, but to stick to it, if you are in a store where the clerk is as well versed in Java texts as you are and the clerk is well aware they don't have a copy of James Gosling's preferred book, it is human nature (as well as good business) to try suggesting something they do have in stock.

If I went to a store looking for a copy of Raymond Chandler's The Little Sister, I would far prefer suggestions of other Chandler works or similar authors works that they do have in stock to a flat 'no'. I would think that clerk that did just say no is an unhelpful jerk.

It is certainly a good thing if the employee can contribute to the Exploration side and give good advice. But in that post about "you cannot have all of them, but try to have a very good, proper selection" I stated that if you cannot have many volumes (>100k), try at least to be specialized (in your <10k). You do not have the Chandler, ok I do not mind at all if you properly try to propose a Hammet. Still, a place where to get the Chandler remains of need - and useful when you are searching. But if your selection is such that you get - that is what your space allowed: Hammet yes, Chandler no, Huxley yes, Orwell no, Le Goff yes, Duby no, Malthus yes, Ricardo no, Schelling yes, Hegel no, Peano yes, Frege no - then you are managing a lottery, not a bookstore.

[ZodWallop]

I'll reply, but honestly I'm not sure that this conversation is worth continuing further.

Originally Posted by mdp

It is certainly a good thing if the employee can contribute to the Exploration side and give good advice. But in that post about "you cannot have all of them, but try to have a very good, proper selection" I stated that if you cannot have many volumes (>100k), try at least to be specialized (in your <10k). You do not have the Chandler, ok I do not mind at all if you properly try to propose a Hammet. Still, a place where to get the Chandler remains of need - and useful when you are searching. But if your selection is such that you get - that is what your space allowed: Hammet yes, Chandler no, Huxley yes, Orwell no, Le Goff yes, Duby no, Malthus yes, Ricardo no, Schelling yes, Hegel no, Peano yes, Frege no - then you are managing a lottery, not a bookstore.

You said yourself: no book store can have everything in stock at all times. You go into a store looking for Raymond Chandler's The Little Sister. They don't have the book in stock. I would hope the clerk (if they were knowledgeable, no clerk knows everything about every subject) would recommend something comprable instead of just saying "we don't have it."

Not sure why that is even worth discussing?

George Orwell's 1984 is a classic that is always in stock. But when I worked in a book store and a class had 1984 assigned to read over a two month period, in the last three days of that period, the store would sell out of 1984. Because invariably the students (and their parents) all rushed to the store at the last minute to grab a copy. Yes, I'm sure some of them thought "this store sucks! They don't even have a copy of 1984!" But of course, there are reasons the store is out.

Now, in the case of it being required for a school read, recommending Huxley wouldn't help. But if someone was looking to read the book out of personal interest, I think recommending Huxley's Strange New World (your original complaint) would be entirely reasonable.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I'll reply, but honestly I'm not sure that this conversation is worth continuing further.


Now, in the case of it being required for a school read, recommending Huxley wouldn't help. But if someone was looking to read the book out of personal interest, I think recommending Huxley's Strange New World (your original complaint) would be entirely reasonable.

Strange? I thought the title was Brave New World (Good book. Did not care for some of his other stuff)

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by theducks

Strange? I thought the title was Brave New World (Good book. Did not care for some of his other stuff)

Doh!

I'm gonna leave it. It's a fun mistake

[curtw]

With the passing of Lucius Shepard and Gene Wolfe, there's only one writer left to draw me into a physical store: Mark Z. Danielewski.

[JSWolf]

This thread has never been on topic as an eBook is a book and this, the topic is all wrong.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by curtw

With the passing of Lucius Shepard and Gene Wolfe, there's only one writer left to draw me into a physical store: Mark Z. Danielewski.

I was very intrigued by House of Leaves, but I have the vague suspicion that his books are all sizzle, no steak.

[wildhoney66]

i've never read his stuff but i have seen his sister in concert back in 2001 though they had camera's there for MTV and it aired on it too but i never saw me or the folks i was with on tv.

[mdp]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

You said yourself: no book store can have everything in stock at all times. You go into a store looking for Raymond Chandler's The Little Sister. They don't have the book in stock. I would hope the clerk (if they were knowledgeable, no clerk knows everything about every subject) would recommend something comprable instead of just saying "we don't have it."

Not sure why that is even worth discussing?

George Orwell's 1984 is a classic that is always in stock. But when I worked in a book store and a class had 1984 assigned to read over a two month period, in the last three days of that period, the store would sell out of 1984. Because invariably the students (and their parents) all rushed to the store at the last minute to grab a copy. Yes, I'm sure some of them thought "this store sucks! They don't even have a copy of 1984!" But of course, there are reasons the store is out.

Now, in the case of it being required for a school read, recommending Huxley wouldn't help. But if someone was looking to read the book out of personal interest, I think recommending Huxley's Strange New World (your original complaint) would be entirely reasonable.

Nobody stated that a clerk should not advise you. I think it should be very clear that the one actual clerk mentioned I stated should never dare to propose

"We do not have '1984', there is a book about motorcycle repairs if you want. No, not Pirsig. A manual to repair motorcycles. Not good enough for you eh? Well, we have some autobiographies there, if you are into those things".

And that clerk was mentioned and reported because it defines a book selling model, by myself criticized.

The point of post #72, hence this subthread, was that while no bookstore can have "everything" the good ones are the ones that try to go in that direction (as opposite to, for example, a random collection of meagre number) - relatively, as in "Just everything in political science" or absolutely, like Bass' Strand, or relatively absolutely, like well furnished stores with big organized collections.

EDIT:
Sorry, I thought I should be extra clear on a few points because I am feeling sad for that strawman ("being advised" as the matter of discussion) you are beating up so mercilessly ;-) :
-- "I do not have '1984', have you read 'Atlas Shrugged'?" : Good
-- "I do not have '1984', have you read 'Brave New World'?" : Ok
-- "I do not have '1984', I just finished it!" : Normal
-- "I do not have '1984', I only have ten titles" : Sad
-- "I do not have '1984', you can have '100 ways to cook mutton' if you want" : Bad


There where I wrote «Not ten thousand as in "You are looking for Orwell, sorry I do not have it but I can sell you Huxley"» it was «Not ten thousand as in "You are looking for Orwell, sorry I do not have it but I can sell you Huxley"», meaning with that rhetoric that the bookstore would not keep "Orwell" because of the space. You have read it too literally.

[ZodWallop]

So back on the original thread topic: My eight year old niece has come to live with me and I have been buying books (actual paper books) like crazy: Where The Sidewalk Ends and the other Silverstein poetry collections, Jumanji and Zathura, the Frog and Toad books, David and the Phoenix, a bunch of Captain Underpants books and more.

Though I still have no desire to buy any more paper books for myself.