Do some publishers have any idea?

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Stupid question--where do you guys guy your manga? Presumably, it's available digitally? Comixology, or...? (I've heard about Totoro, and always been curious about it...btw).

Hitch

The ones I mentioned, I read in paper way back when.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I get that, and when I was young I used to say that money has no sexism, but when it comes to Pedo Porn, I draw the line, ya know?

An significant proportion of the publishing industry makes its money from fictional accounts of activities that would be crimes if carried out in the real world. Consider the horror genre, for example, or even detective fiction, although generally that does focus on the search for the murderer, admittedly. I certainly wouldn't be in favour of banning fictional depiction of crime, no matter how repugnant I find some of it to be. Where would one draw the line?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I certainly wouldn't be in favour of banning fictional depiction of crime, no matter how repugnant I find some of it to be. Where would one draw the line?

How to guides?

A few mystery/thriller writers have let it be known they insert intentional errors into their stories to ensure their "perfect" crimes aren't.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

How to guides?

A few mystery/thriller writers have let it be known they insert intentional errors into their stories to ensure their "perfect" crimes aren't.

That could just be an excuse. If someone points out a flaw, they can always say it was intentional. I like fiction that is clearly marked as fiction. If it says "based on true events," then I take it as "fiction inspired by" and not a true retelling of the facts. Just like "the inside story of the (insert any three-letter-acronym-government-agency)" is never telling the truth. "Black Ops" is a really good example of something I believe exists, but I would never ever believe any writing about it to be the truth and nothing but the truth.

Totally agree on the how to guides to encourage to break the law. (ETA: to clarify, I meant to draw the line with them, if that wasn't clear)

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

How to guides?

A few mystery/thriller writers have let it be known they insert intentional errors into their stories to ensure their "perfect" crimes aren't.

I remember Stephen King mentioning in the afterward to his story Dolan's Cadillac that he intentionally changed some details when the instructions his brother provided on how to hotwire a tractor were too detailed and explicit.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

How to guides?

A few mystery/thriller writers have let it be known they insert intentional errors into their stories to ensure their "perfect" crimes aren't.

Yeah, that's a good story.

Hitch

[darryl]

Originally Posted by HarryT

An significant proportion of the publishing industry makes its money from fictional accounts of activities that would be crimes if carried out in the real world. Consider the horror genre, for example, or even detective fiction, although generally that does focus on the search for the murderer, admittedly. I certainly wouldn't be in favour of banning fictional depiction of crime, no matter how repugnant I find some of it to be. Where would one draw the line?

We could simply appoint the self-righteous outrage mob over at Ya Twitter as arbiters!

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Oh yeah. And...



Yes, SOME early photography magazines were softcore porn. But that's not the same as saying magazines were published originally only to peddle porn.

Just like manga wasn't created as some sort of workaround to pedophile porn as some on here claimed.

It's a bit like porn being the big driver for the early internet. You may not wish it were so, and you can point to various early aspects of the early internet that was not porn, but it doesn't change the facts.

Pedo porn goes all the way back to the start of the modern manga movement. No, it didn't show up on Saturday morning TV and quite likely mostly didn't make it to various US book stores. But, it does exist. Just google the term I listed earlier and follow the links.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

It's a bit like porn being the big driver for the early internet. You may not wish it were so, and you can point to various early aspects of the early internet that was not porn, but it doesn't change the facts.

Pedo porn goes all the way back to the start of the modern manga movement. No, it didn't show up on Saturday morning TV and quite likely mostly didn't make it to various US book stores. But, it does exist. Just google the term I listed earlier and follow the links.

I am familiar with hentai. When I was in Japan earlier this year, for fun we went into a shop that sold hentai. It wasn't easy to find, even in Akihabara. It was a small subset of the industry sold in (literal) underground shops.

Manga is sold all over the place in Japan. Convenience stores like 7-11 and Family Mart are everywhere. They sell manga. They sell porn. But it is far, far easier to find flat out porn magazines than it is to find hentai.

And not all (or even most) hentai is porn depicting underage people. There is a fascination with the school girl uniforms, but is that really any different than the fascination with cheerleaders here? (How did a Mobileread thread go down this path?)

Can you point me to any article (other than some guy's blog) saying that manga succeeded purely or almost entirely due to the ease of delivering quasi-pedophile porn? There's a difference between something existing and something being the driving force behind an industry's success.

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

And not all (or even most) hentai is porn depicting underage people. There is a fascination with the school girl uniforms, but is that really any different than the fascination with cheerleaders here? (How did a Mobileread thread go down this path?)

I would say there is a big difference between school uniform and cheerleading uniform. There is plenty of good looking adult cheerleaders. OTOH there is no mistaking an adult dressed up with a little girl school uniform for what it is.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

I would say there is a big difference between school uniform and cheerleading uniform. There is plenty of good looking adult cheerleaders. OTOH there is no mistaking an adult dressed up with a little girl school uniform for what it is.

A Halloween costume?

The official test for what constitutes porn is "I'll know it when I see it."
Problem is no two people ever see the exact same thing.
Even when they do, some people care about context, others don't.
That's why "your mileage will vary".

[DuckieTigger]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

A Halloween costume?

The official test for what constitutes porn is "I'll know it when I see it."
Problem is no two people ever see the exact same thing.
Even when they do, some people care about context, others don't.
That's why "your mileage will vary".

I call them how I see them. If it looks underage, for all intends and purposes it is.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I am familiar with hentai. When I was in Japan earlier this year, for fun we went into a shop that sold hentai. It wasn't easy to find, even in Akihabara. It was a small subset of the industry sold in (literal) underground shops.

Manga is sold all over the place in Japan. Convenience stores like 7-11 and Family Mart are everywhere. They sell manga. They sell porn. But it is far, far easier to find flat out porn magazines than it is to find hentai.

And not all (or even most) hentai is porn depicting underage people. There is a fascination with the school girl uniforms, but is that really any different than the fascination with cheerleaders here? (How did a Mobileread thread go down this path?)

Can you point me to any article (other than some guy's blog) saying that manga succeeded purely or almost entirely due to the ease of delivering quasi-pedophile porn? There's a difference between something existing and something being the driving force behind an industry's success.

Ah, I see, the old move the goalpost argument. No, not all hentai is pedo porn. The term refers to any porn that one might consider abnormal. If you look back at what I actually said, before you went into instinctive attack mode, I said "No idea if that's really the case or if it's just some sort of urban legend". It's history does date back to the post WW II revival of manga though.

If you want to pretend that there isn't an element of pedo porn in the school girl costume thread that runs through manga, that's your choice. Personally, I can see why it makes some people uncomfortable.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

I would say there is a big difference between school uniform and cheerleading uniform. There is plenty of good looking adult cheerleaders. OTOH there is no mistaking an adult dressed up with a little girl school uniform for what it is.

I say that there's an age difference. You look at the apparent ages of most of the schoolgirl uniforms in manga/anime/whatever, and those girls are TWEENS, not teens.

I can fully understand why an adult male might find a 17-y.o. in a cheerleading outfit hot. It's biological; we've outpaced our biological ability to reproduce but it doesn't mean our brains have been rewired from the swamp. Adults with any sort of barometer can look, do a second take, turn away and not indulge.

I can't find any reason why it's okay to look at a 12- or 13-y.o. that way, just because she has coltish-but-maturing legs and nubs on her damn chest, in an outfit euphemistically called a "schoolGIRL outfit." I mean, would it be okay if we put them in French Maid outfits, too?

Hitch

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DuckieTigger

I call them how I see them. If it looks underage, for all intends and purposes it is.

For *most* I would agree but I've know more than my share of 30ish women, not all actresses, that can easily and credibly pass for teenagers. (A friend of mine is married to one who didn't physically age from 14-32, and not even childbirth changed her. He had some explaining to do from time to time. )

Conversely, there's more than a few guys who've taken 15 year olds who can for 25.
Either can lead to trouble.