Do some publishers have any idea?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by GlennD

The thing about manga is that there is literally something for everyone. You can pretty much find what you're looking for - everything from volleyball manuals to various flavors of porn. I easily could point you at some great manga without even a hint of innuendo in it.

I would be delighted to see some great manga that doesn't make me feel like I need a bath after, truly. ;-)

Hitch

[lumpynose]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Yes, supposedly that is how Manga got it's start, pedo porn that was stylized enough that the Japanese courts wouldn't throw you in jail for having it because it didn't look enough like a real kid to count. No idea if that's really the case or if it's just some sort of urban legend

I would guess that it wasn't that way in its early days and later evolved into that. See these google search images from the Astro Boy cartoon I referenced previously.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yyheyy7x

[lumpynose]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I would be delighted to see some great manga that doesn't make me feel like I need a bath after, truly. ;-)

Hitch

OT as well: I have a similar reaction to artstation.com where artists who create stuff for science fiction and fantasy can display their work. There's a lot of great stuff there but then some of the soft porn is so obvious. And what surprises me is that a lot of that is done by Chinese/Asian women, from looking at their profile picture. I guess they've got to follow the money.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by lumpynose

I would guess that it wasn't that way in its early days and later evolved into that. See these google search images from the Astro Boy cartoon I referenced previously.

https://preview.tinyurl.com/yyheyy7x

Shameful admission--I loved Astro Boy, LOL! My baby bro used to watch it and I thought it was very cute.

Originally Posted by lumpynose

OT as well: I have a similar reaction to artstation.com where artists who create stuff for science fiction and fantasy can display their work. There's a lot of great stuff there but then some of the soft porn is so obvious. And what surprises me is that a lot of that is done by Chinese/Asian women, from looking at their profile picture. I guess they've got to follow the money.

I get that, and when I was young I used to say that money has no sexism, but when it comes to Pedo Porn, I draw the line, ya know?

Hitch

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I would be delighted to see some great manga that doesn't make me feel like I need a bath after, truly. ;-)

Hitch

Here you go:

2001 Nights
Akira
Barefoot Gen
Lone Wolf and Cub

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Yes, supposedly that is how Manga got it's start, pedo porn that was stylized enough that the Japanese courts wouldn't throw you in jail for having it because it didn't look enough like a real kid to count. No idea if that's really the case or if it's just some sort of urban legend.

That's some pure-grade bunk is what it is. You can easily skim a history of manga at Wikipedia and find out the story is BS.

I'm not a huge manga reader myself. But I don't think it's a good idea to judge an entire style of publishing (especially one that comes from a culture you don't understand) based on 'people are saying...' arguments.

It's as fallacious as arguing that paperbacks were created as a way to make porn novels cheaper and easier to hide.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

That's some pure-grade bunk is what it is. You can easily skim a history of manga at Wikipedia and find out the story is BS.

I'm not a huge manga reader myself. But I don't think it's a good idea to judge an entire style of publishing (especially one that comes from a culture you don't understand) based on 'people are saying...' arguments.

It's as fallacious as arguing that paperbacks were created as a way to make porn novels cheaper and easier to hide.

With all due respect, Zod, while I'm as research-loving as the next guy, I wouldn't rely on Wikipedia. I know first-hand just how...shall we say, "curated" it is.

Some of the purported "bunk" is true. Early men's body-building magazines and other "girlie" rags that were originally "photography" magazines were exactly that--created to stimulate certain appetities and they weren't for bodybuilding or photography.

Sometimes, things simply are what they are, you know?

Hitch

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Hitch

With all due respect, Zod, while I'm as research-loving as the next guy, I wouldn't rely on Wikipedia. I know first-hand just how...shall we say, "curated" it is.

Some of the purported "bunk" is true. Early men's body-building magazines and other "girlie" rags that were originally "photography" magazines were exactly that--created to stimulate certain appetities and they weren't for bodybuilding or photography.

Sometimes, things simply are what they are, you know?

Hitch

Wiki is a nice place to start researching, but a bad place to end researching. I've read a number of things there that I know are flat out wrong. Certainly, it's to be ignored for certain highly political subjects.

Wiki does mention the pornographic history of manga, just not under the main manga article. For those interested in that, I would suggest googling "hentai", but not from work. Apparently, it has both a long history and a modern history dating back to the post WW II occupation, i.e. the same time period that modern Manga started.

[GlennD]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I would be delighted to see some great manga that doesn't make me feel like I need a bath after, truly. ;-)

Hitch

Zodwallop had some good choices that I would second (2001 nights, Akira, and I've heard great things about lone wolf and cub but haven't read much of it); Akira in particular has some pretty violent content but not pedo porn.

I'd add Battle Angel Alita (although it is also quite violent), and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. Nausicaa is particularly terrific because it leads you into the anime created by Hayao Miyazaki....and that leads you to Totoro, which is (in my opinion) the greatest children's movie ever made. Miyazaki's other anime is also very good.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by GlennD

Zodwallop had some good choices that I would second (2001 nights, Akira, and I've heard great things about lone wolf and cub but haven't read much of it); Akira in particular has some pretty violent content but not pedo porn.

I'd add Battle Angel Alita (although it is also quite violent), and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. Nausicaa is particularly terrific because it leads you into the anime created by Hayao Miyazaki....and that leads you to Totoro, which is (in my opinion) the greatest children's movie ever made. Miyazaki's other anime is also very good.

Stupid question--where do you guys guy your manga? Presumably, it's available digitally? Comixology, or...? (I've heard about Totoro, and always been curious about it...btw).

Hitch

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Stupid question--where do you guys guy your manga? Presumably, it's available digitally? Comixology, or...? (I've heard about Totoro, and always been curious about it...btw).

Hitch

Don't know where the hardcore (innuendo not intended) Manga fans get their Manga, but My Neighbor Totoro is available on Amazon. The Kindle store has a whole section on Manga.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

Don't know where the hardcore (innuendo not intended) Manga fans get their Manga, but My Neighbor Totoro is available on Amazon. The Kindle store has a whole section on Manga.

Tx.

Hitch

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Stupid question--where do you guys guy your manga? Presumably, it's available digitally? Comixology, or...? (I've heard about Totoro, and always been curious about it...btw).

Hitch

Bookstores, actually.
At least I used to get mine at BORDERS way back when.
These days, Amazon, B&N and comics shops move a lot.
Some Indie bookstores, I suppose, though I haven't been in any for ages.

Yes, there are a couple of digital services. Some are downright cheap:
https://io9.gizmodo.com/shueisha-is-...fic-1832123493

For anime, a good place to look is CRUNCHYROLL or VRV. Generally free on your streaming platform of choice.
It's a highly stylized subculture with a broad range of genres, sub-genres, and conventions. It can easily soak up all your time.

So yes to Akira, Nausicaa, Tortoro, etc.
If you're more into SF&F action, check out GUNDAM (Seed is pretty good) and DEATH NOTE. The Anime is great. The first two live action movies are pretty good (and shorter). Avoid the NETFLIX version like the plague; it subverts everything good about the concept.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Hitch

With all due respect, Zod, while I'm as research-loving as the next guy, I wouldn't rely on Wikipedia. I know first-hand just how...shall we say, "curated" it is.

Wikipedia was neither the beginning nor ending of my research, but rather a quick link I could point to on this thread.

I have been reading manga on and off since the eighties when Eclipse Comics first started making English manga widely available.

[ZodWallop]

Oh yeah. And...

Originally Posted by Hitch

Some of the purported "bunk" is true. Early men's body-building magazines and other "girlie" rags that were originally "photography" magazines were exactly that--created to stimulate certain appetities and they weren't for bodybuilding or photography.

Yes, SOME early photography magazines were softcore porn. But that's not the same as saying magazines were published originally only to peddle porn.

Just like manga wasn't created as some sort of workaround to pedophile porn as some on here claimed.