Why are YA novels immediately recognizable as YA novels?

[Deskisamess]

Originally Posted by azayn

I would say its a combination of the characters - adolescents and people in their 20s - and the topics/storylines are often relateable to experiences had by people in that age bracket. Agree with pwalker8 that YA is more straightforward and direct. I read a lot of YA last year and while some of it was quite enjoyable, it doesn't usually rise to the level of great literature.

But then again there are exceptions. "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn", one of my all time favorite novels, is technically YA.

Really? ATGIB has some very "adult" themes and situations, and carries some fairly deep thinking. And it's not really a quick read at over 500 pages. I'd never describe it as YA.

It's also one of my favorites.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by GrannyGrump

Does it seem that YA fills a gap? When I was growing up (you know, dirt had just been invented then), the transition between Children's literature and Adult literature seemed much more abrupt. Nancy Drew one day, Peyton Place** the next...

Oh, I dunno. I was quite fond of the genre known as "malt shop" books, which transitioned between Nancy Drew and Peyton Place. There were also 19th century authors including the Bronte gals, Austen and Louisa May Alcott who also served to fill the gap. I'll note that the children's room in the library had only two divisions - picture books and everything else. It was a jumble, but a good thing for all that, because how many favorites have we all discovered by a serendipitous location on a shelf?

Originally Posted by azayn

But then again there are exceptions. "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn", one of my all time favorite novels, is technically YA.

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Really? ATGIB has some very "adult" themes and situations, and carries some fairly deep thinking. And it's not really a quick read at over 500 pages. I'd never describe it as YA.

I agree. Just because a book is about a YA doesn't make it YA, even though a YA would read it with enjoyment. I'm also not fond of the retroactive classification.

[DiapDealer]

I remain convinced that YA is merely a decision (made primarily for marketing reasons), and not really any kind of quantifiable rules-based style of story-telling. YA is certainly going to be about younger protags, but having younger protags does not automatically make a story YA.

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I remain convinced that YA is merely a decision (made primarily for marketing reasons), and not really any kind of quantifiable rules-based style of story-telling. YA is certainly going to be about younger protags, but having younger protags does not automatically make a story YA.

Very few genres or divisions have hard, fast quantifiable rulesbased styles of story-telling. People debate science fiction verses fantasy all the time and there are a lot of strongly held opinions on what the difference is.

In general, YA are books targeted at people in certain age groups. Sometimes it's teens (13-16 say), other times it's middle schoolers (10-12), other times it's younger children. That's the definition that I think is the most accurate way to categorize such books.

The target audience of the Harry Potter books seemed to increase with the age of Harry Potter in each of the books. The last Harry Potter book was a longer and much more complex book than the first Harry Potter book. In general, eleven year olds aren't particularly attracted to the snogging in HP6.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by pwalker8

In general, YA are books targeted at people in certain age groups. Sometimes it's teens (13-16 say), other times it's middle schoolers (10-12), other times it's younger children. That's the definition that I think is the most accurate way to categorize such books.

I can't stress enough how odd it seems to me that anyone would use the word Adult--however modified--to refer to any of the age groups you mentioned. YA is sometimes targeted at children younger the 10-12?? How weird is that?

So, while I understand the marketing angle (though I don't believe many 10-16 year-old readers are truly influenced by publisher marketing sub-labels--perhaps it's their parents who are?), saying that books targeting 9-16 year-olds is the "most accurate way to categorize such books" makes no sense to me at all. In fact, YA would be the most inaccurate way I can think of to categorize such books.

I have no trouble believing that there's more adults searching out YA titles (as a subgenre) than there are children doing so.

[ElspethB]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Really? ATGIB has some very "adult" themes and situations, and carries some fairly deep thinking. And it's not really a quick read at over 500 pages. I'd never describe it as YA.

Although A Tree Grows in Brooklyn may now be shelved in the YA section of a bookstore or library and may be appreciated by a teenager, it was written for adults. In fact it was one of the most popular of the Armed Services Editions, small, pocked-sized books that were distributed to the American military during WWII and for a few years afterward.

It's also one of my favorites.

Mine also, and one I've reread countless times!

[Victoria]

I think the YA classification has changed over the years, like everything else. Looking back, what was considered YA when I was young, was very different from what is marketed as YA today.

For example, I ate up the ‘Cherry Ames’ mysteries. They were intentionally ‘wholesome’, with lots of lessons on how good young women should behave, and were a far cry from ‘The Hunger Games’.

That said, I don’t remember anyone trying to censor our reading. Valley of the Dolls, Exodus, Peyton Place, Of Human Bondage, The Scarlet Letter, etc, were all mixed in together with YA books. If you were interested they were available.

[azayn]

Originally Posted by Deskisamess

Really? ATGIB has some very "adult" themes and situations, and carries some fairly deep thinking. And it's not really a quick read at over 500 pages. I'd never describe it as YA.

It's also one of my favorites.

Older books like ATGIB and Lord of the Flies often get classified these days as YA or juvenile fiction even though they obviously weren't intended for that genre when written. Presumably its because the story resolves around about adolescents and that's who the audience generally is.

Perhaps these books can be considered a precursor to modern YA?

[hildea]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I remain convinced that YA is merely a decision (made primarily for marketing reasons), and not really any kind of quantifiable rules-based style of story-telling. YA is certainly going to be about younger protags, but having younger protags does not automatically make a story YA.

I agree. I've also seen complaints that SF and fantasy by women tend to get tagged as YA when similar books by men wouldn't be.

Originally Posted by haertig

What makes YA (Young Adult) novels immediately recognizable?

I don't mind reading them - I'm reading one now. But I was just pondering, what is it that defines these novels? When you start reading, within the first paragraph, you can usually tell it is YA. Why is that? Is it the wording? The tone? The characters? I can't put my finger on it. All's I can say is that when you start reading one, you definitely know you are reading one, right from the very beginning.

You do? I'm pretty sure I can't tell.

I'm tempted to do a little test
Here are some novels I really like with young protagonists. Half of them are YA, the other half aren't. Does anyone want to try their hand at guessing?

Originally Posted by Sample 1

It was a terrible day even before Crispin blew up the study.
It had started badly, as every day did under Mr. Maupert. He was not a patient teacher at the best of times; he specialised in resonance, a form of practice at which Crispin was embarrassingly inept; and after six miserable weeks of failure, it had become merely a question of whether teacher or student would crack first.
Obviously, that was Crispin.
He didn’t mean to do it. He was trying his best, in the disheartening consciousness of his own uselessness; trying to ignore the constant nagging temptation of the better, easier, natural way. He was trying to get it right. So when Mr. Maupert shouted “Three over eight, boy!” Crispin tried to do that too.

Originally Posted by Sample 2

Today is going to be a good day.
There is little outward evidence of this. Ragged, gray clouds skittered in overhead during my morning bus ride. By the time I got to my stop a few blocks from the edge of campus, rain was coming down in earnest. Now, passing cars send up a fine spray of droplets. The umbrella in my backpack gave up the ghost as soon as I pulled it out, and I haven’t had a chance to duct tape the fabric to the spines yet, because I’m about fourteen minutes away from a class that starts in eleven minutes and twenty-nine seconds.
Today hasn’t started particularly well, and my schedule only forecasts worse. I have five hours of work this afternoon and several projects due in the next two days. Before I can tackle any of that, there’s the pesky issue of three hours of morning classes. I’ll be lucky to sleep before midnight.
But counterbalancing that undoubtedly depressing list is one bright beacon: I’m wearing my favorite sweater.

Originally Posted by Sample 3

I shouldn’t have come to this party.
I’m not even sure I belong at this party. That’s not on some bougie shit, either. There are just some places where it’s not enough to be me. Either version of me. Big D’s spring break party is one of those places.
I squeeze through sweaty bodies and follow Kenya, her curls bouncing past her shoulders. A haze lingers over the room, smelling like weed, and music rattles the floor. Some rapper calls out for everybody to Nae-Nae, followed by a bunch of “Heys” as people launch into their own versions. Kenya holds up her cup and dances her way through the crowd. Between the headache from the loud-ass music and the nausea from the weed odor, I’ll be amazed if I cross the room without spilling my drink.
We break out the crowd. Big D’s house is packed wall-to-wall. I’ve always heard that everybody and their momma comes to his spring break parties—well, everybody except me—but damn, I didn’t know it would be this many people.

Originally Posted by Sample 4

It was the best of times until it was the worst of times.
We had never been allowed to go away for the weekend alone together before. So our holiday at Martha’s Vineyard was a rare and special treat, sweet as only things that come seldom and do not last can be.
Those two days were long and sunshiny and warm. When I think about them now, I remember the pale amber of the sky at sunset, like light shining through honey. I remember the last time I was purely and uncomplicatedly happy, as I used to be when I was a child and my mother was alive.
Happiness is self-sabotage, a mean trick that your own mind plays on you. It makes you careless, makes you lose your grip, and once you lose your grip, you lose everything. You certainly aren’t happy anymore.
I was very stupid. It was because I was happy that I made my first mistake.
In the weeks that followed, I made more.

Originally Posted by Sample 5

Our Dragon doesn’t eat the girls he takes, no matter what stories they tell outside our valley. We hear them sometimes, from travelers passing through. They talk as though we were doing human sacrifice, and he were a real dragon. Of course that’s not true: he may be a wizard and immortal, but he’s still a man, and our fathers would band together and kill him if he wanted to eat one of us every ten years. He protects us against the Wood, and we’re grateful, but not that grateful.
He doesn’t devour them really; it only feels that way. He takes a girl to his tower, and ten years later he lets her go, but by then she’s someone different. Her clothes are too fine and she talks like a courtier and she’s been living alone with a man for ten years, so of course she’s ruined, even though the girls all say he never puts a hand on them. What else could they say? And that’s not the worst of it—after all, the Dragon gives them a purse full of silver for their dowry when he lets them go, so anyone would be happy to marry them, ruined or not.
But they don’t want to marry anyone. They don’t want to stay at all.

Originally Posted by Sample 6

On the morning we are to leave for our Grand Tour of the Continent, I wake in bed beside Percy. For a disorienting moment, it’s unclear whether we’ve slept together or simply slept together.
Percy’s still got all his clothes on from the night before, albeit most in neither the state nor the location they were in when originally donned, and while the bedcovers are a bit roughed up, there’s no sign of any strumming. So although I’ve got nothing on but my waistcoat—by some sorcery now buttoned back to front—and one shoe, it seems safe to assume we both kept our bits to ourselves.
Which is a strange sort of relief, because I’d like to be sober the first time we’re together. If there ever is a first time. Which it’s starting to seem like there won’t be.

And here's the verdict. I've checked whether Amazon classifies them as YA or not.

Spoiler:

Sample 1: KJ Charles: Rag and Bone. Not YA. Urban fantasy and romance.
Sample 2: Courtney Milan: Trade Me. Not YA. Contemporary romance.
Sample 3: Angie Thomas: They Hate U Give. YA. Contemporary realism (not sure what't the correct label is, it's about police violence and racism, among other things)
Sample 4: Sarah Rees Brennan: Tell the Wind and Fire. YA. Dystopic fantasy. (And yes, the Tale of Two Cities paraphrase is intentional)
Sample 5: Naomi Novik. Not YA. Fantasy.
Sample 6: Mackenzi Lee: The Gentleman's Guide to Vice and Virtue. YA. Historical adventure and romance.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by hildea

I agree. I've also seen complaints that SF and fantasy by women tend to get tagged as YA when similar books by men wouldn't be.

I can see that happening. In fact, I'd wager that a significant majority of works being tagged as YA in publisher blurbs these days are SFF written by women.

[Sarmat89]

Usually a chapter size under 2500 words is a dead giveaway.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I can't stress enough how odd it seems to me that anyone would use the word Adult--however modified--to refer to any of the age groups you mentioned. YA is sometimes targeted at children younger the 10-12?? How weird is that?

It's also not really the case - books aimed at that age bracket are called "middle grade", not YA. They're the approximate equivalent of the old juvenile fiction books.

Older middle grade novels would be books like the Famous Five or Heinlein juveniles; more modern middle grades include books like the Percy Jackson series, Griffiths' Treehouse books, Rangers Apprentice, A Series of Unfortunate Events, The 39 Clues.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I never understood why the word "Adult" was used in YA in first place. They're clearly targeting adolescents not adults (though many adults--myself included sometimes--enjoy the stories as well). Why abuse the word "adult" when the perfectly apt "adolescent" is available (and is a perfect description of the intended primary target audience)?

It's all about marketing.
It's hard to define because it has no clear definition. Young adult is whatever the marketing department wants to flag as YA.

Because several books and series aimed at younger readers were successful earlier this century a lot of books that really belong in romance or SF&F are being flagged as YA to get them shelved in a different part of the bookstore.

In earlier times some of those books were labeled as "juveniles" or young reader books. Even then the category was amorphous: Heinlein explained his approach as "make the protagonist a teen and write him like an adult".

What made the category a big seller initially was accessibility: where litfit is supposed to feature elaborate, "challenging" prose and themes, YA is supposed to be more straightforward and young reader friendly, more focused on plot and character than on wordsmithing. Which is to say, good mainstream commercial writing. Which is why despite the "young" part of the tag, the bulk of the readership is adults rather than teens.

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...rature/547334/

The end result of the marketing strategy is that the category includes all sorts of books, many that weren't really aimed at teens at all. So tagging it as "adolescent" or teen or juveniles would run counter to the marketing intent, which is really meant to signal: not litfic. "Something you'll actually finish." ; )

Bottom line is that YA is whatever book the publisher chooses to market as YA, regardless of content, style, or subject. It can be SF, Fantasy, romance, mystery, or thriller. As long as it is commercial fiction rather than litfic, and it doesn't get too gory or sexual it qualifies.
Whatever meaning the label might have once had is now lost in the rush for YA market dollars.

That said, the YA gold rush has peaked.
A lot of authors and some publishers are starting to avoid the tag. (They're not changing the stories, just changing the marketing.)

The category is starting to get saturated. And then there's this:

https://www.vulture.com/2017/08/the-...a-twitter.html

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It's hard to define because it has no clear definition. Young adult is whatever the marketing department wants to flag as YA.

Right. Which is basically my entire objection in a nutshell. It's pointless as a descriptor.

Yes, I know all subgenre's are fuzzy and unclear, but it least they give a general idea as to what kind of content can be expected (scifi, fantasy, horror, thriller, etc...). The only thing the YA label brings to the table is: "expect young protags." That's it.

"What's the book about?"
"Youth."
"Good to know. Thanks."

It's not even a (sub)genre. Which is another aspect of my beef: it's being used like a genre/style when it's nothing but a marketing term that is largely useless to the reading world at large. People (youth included) look for books about something.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Whatever meaning the label might have once had is now lost in the rush for YA market dollars.

Agreed. Hence my complete unwillingness to acknowledge its usefulness to readers

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by meeera

It's also not really the case - books aimed at that age bracket are called "middle grade", not YA. They're the approximate equivalent of the old juvenile fiction books.

Older middle grade novels would be books like the Famous Five or Heinlein juveniles; more modern middle grades include books like the Percy Jackson series, Griffiths' Treehouse books, Rangers Apprentice, A Series of Unfortunate Events, The 39 Clues.

Can't say that I've ever seen any book labeled "middle grade". Of course, in the US, it's called middle school, but I don't recall seeing that label either. Oddly enough, all those books are in the teen and young adult section in the Kindle store.

Much of the time, books are either labeled with the age and/or grade levels the books are appropriate for if the book is oriented towards to younger spectrum of the young adult group. The Percy Jackson books are labeled grade level 5-9 and age 10-14. The Harry Potter books are labeled grade level 4-7 and age 8-12. That strikes me as right for the first one, but not the last one.

The Harley Merlin books (also in the teen & young adult section in the Kindle store) on the other hand, don't have any age or grade labels. The Harley Merlin books seem to be more romance/fantasy books oriented towards teenage girls.