Why are YA novels immediately recognizable as YA novels? - Page 2

haertig · 06-03-2019, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumpynose

In my mind adolescent has always had a slightly negative connotation implying immaturity, emotional or otherwise.

I find that these days, adolescence doesn't end until about 30 years old for males, approximately 27 for females. Back in my day, it ended about 27 for males, 25 for females - so over a few decades it's slipped up slightly.

DiapDealer · 06-03-2019, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

As a marketing term to get the primary target audience to read it. How many teenagers do you think will read a book that is labeled Adolescent Book?

Most of them don't get the YA label until after they've been released for a while anyway. I don't think the two-letter label is what's getting kids to read them in the first place. At that age, their reading habits are typically driven by word-of-mouth and popularity, rather than sub-labels they may never encounter. It may be a little different today, but I don't even think "YA" was a household word when the first Harry Potter books were being released.

As to "adolescent" having a negative connotation... that's the first I've ever heard of such a thing.

haertig · 06-03-2019, 08:03 PM

I remember things being called "juvenile fiction" when I was young. Or, maybe that was after I had gotten older, and saw this label used for things that I had read in my youth. I can't remember exactly when I first encountered the term. These "juveniles" were books written by Andre Norton, Robert Heinlein, etc.

lumpynose · 06-03-2019, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

At that age, their reading habits are typically driven by word-of-mouth and popularity, rather than sub-labels they may never encounter.

It could also depend upon where they get their books from. My local library has 2 sections for kids, the young adult section and the juvenile section. I haven't been a bookstore in ages but they may do the same thing.

DiapDealer · 06-03-2019, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumpynose

It could also depend upon where they get their books from. My local library has 2 sections for kids, the young adult section and the juvenile section. I haven't been a bookstore in ages but they may do the same thing.

You don't find it rather telling that you just said the young adult section of your library is one of two sections for kids?

Little.Egret · 06-03-2019, 08:35 PM

I have always regarded as a publishers and marketing term.

At least one Andre Norton was mainstream in North America and YA in Britain.

Catseye IIRC

DiapDealer · 06-03-2019, 08:51 PM

My main beef is that the YA label seems to be applied in such a frivolous manner. It's not always used where it clearly could apply, and it's sometimes used where the content would be considered adult adult by most people. It's so purely a marketing ploy that it's almost completely meaningless. "Old" Adults sometimes seek it out specifically (that's not a value judgement, by the way) and many "true" Young Adults feel they've outgrown it. My opinion is if the author doesn't specifically call their work YA, I'm not going to think of it as such.

FizzyWater · 06-03-2019, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

I have always regarded as a publishers and marketing term.

This is likely part of it. I think it's also to appease the teenage ego. No teenager wants to be called an adolescent or child.

GrannyGrump · 06-03-2019, 10:24 PM

Does it seem that YA fills a gap? When I was growing up (you know, dirt had just been invented then), the transition between Children's literature and Adult literature seemed much more abrupt. Nancy Drew one day, Peyton Place** the next...

Now there is a developing genre of New Adult, targeted for ages 18 to 30. Truly, this seems to be getting rather silly. If you are still considered a "New" adult at age 30, that would imply you have been quite immature throughout your twenties. This is a bit frightening -- people in their later twenties are getting ready to run the world, and they are still considered "New"???

Grumble, grumble, grump...

** footnote -- for all you youngsters, "Peyton Place" was written in the 1950's, and as a mainstream novel, was notorious for its frank treatment of sex. It might be considered the "50 Shades of Gray" of the mid-twentieth century, EXCEPT it was excellently written.

haertig · 06-04-2019, 12:50 AM

Wow, talk about a strange coincidence. I just opened an unlabeled box in our storage wondering what was in it, and yikes! I guess I'm really dating myself now. I remember reading parts of this series in the early 60's! I suppose you'd call them "sub-juvenile". Other than yellowed pages, they're still in decent shape.

lumpynose · 06-04-2019, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You don't find it rather telling that you just said the young adult section of your library is one of two sections for kids?

Lol, well yeah. But then see haertig's response above about 30 year olds and GrannyGrump's about New Adults.

lumpynose · 06-04-2019, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haertig

Wow, talk about a strange coincidence. I just opened an unlabeled box in our storage wondering what was in it, and yikes! I guess I'm really dating myself now. I remember reading parts of this series in the early 60's! I suppose you'd call them "sub-juvenile". Other than yellowed pages, they're still in decent shape.

I was disappointed to discover that those kids books weren't really written by Victor Appleton, and no doubt the same is true for the "author" of the Nancy Drew series, and the others but they had a stable of authors that they used.

azayn · 06-04-2019, 05:23 AM

I would say its a combination of the characters - adolescents and people in their 20s - and the topics/storylines are often relateable to experiences had by people in that age bracket. Agree with pwalker8 that YA is more straightforward and direct. I read a lot of YA last year and while some of it was quite enjoyable, it doesn't usually rise to the level of great literature.

But then again there are exceptions. "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn", one of my all time favorite novels, is technically YA.

pwalker8 · 06-04-2019, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haertig

I remember things being called "juvenile fiction" when I was young. Or, maybe that was after I had gotten older, and saw this label used for things that I had read in my youth. I can't remember exactly when I first encountered the term. These "juveniles" were books written by Andre Norton, Robert Heinlein, etc.

I remember juveniles being the term used way back when. I had a summer job working in my local library back in the early 70's. They had two levels, the children's section on the lower level and the adult section on the upper level. I worked shelving books and helping in the kids' program.

True story, part of the kids program was bringing people in to give talks. One of the people was from the city zoo. He brought a lion. My job was to stay between the lion and the kids at all time.

DiapDealer · 06-04-2019, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwalker8

True story, part of the kids program was bringing people in to give talks. One of the people was from the city zoo. He brought a lion. My job was to stay between the lion and the kids at all time.

So you're able to legitimately list "Lion Fodder" in your resume under work-history? I think I'm actually jealous!

06-03-2019, 10:24 PM	#24
GrannyGrump Obsessively Dedicated... Posts: 3,221 Karma: 35037583 Join Date: May 2011 Location: PA {back in the usa!} Device: Sony PRS-T2, ADE on PC	Does it seem that YA fills a gap? When I was growing up (you know, dirt had just been invented then), the transition between Children's literature and Adult literature seemed much more abrupt. Nancy Drew one day, Peyton Place the next... Now there is a developing genre of New Adult, targeted for ages 18 to 30. Truly, this seems to be getting rather silly. If you are still considered a "New" adult at age 30, that would imply you have been quite immature throughout your twenties. This is a bit frightening -- people in their later twenties are getting ready to run the world, and they are still considered "New"??? Grumble, grumble, grump... footnote -- for all you youngsters, "Peyton Place" was written in the 1950's, and as a mainstream novel, was notorious for its frank treatment of sex. It might be considered the "50 Shades of Gray" of the mid-twentieth century, EXCEPT it was excellently written. Last edited by GrannyGrump; 06-03-2019 at 10:37 PM.

06-04-2019, 12:50 AM	#25
haertig Wizard Posts: 1,897 Karma: 31522252 Join Date: Sep 2017 Device: PW3, Fire HD8 Gen7, Moto G7, Sansa Clip v2, Ruizu X26	Wow, talk about a strange coincidence. I just opened an unlabeled box in our storage wondering what was in it, and yikes! I guess I'm really dating myself now. I remember reading parts of this series in the early 60's! I suppose you'd call them "sub-juvenile". Other than yellowed pages, they're still in decent shape. Attached Thumbnails

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06-03-2019, 08:03 PM	#18
haertig Wizard Posts: 1,897 Karma: 31522252 Join Date: Sep 2017 Device: PW3, Fire HD8 Gen7, Moto G7, Sansa Clip v2, Ruizu X26	I remember things being called "juvenile fiction" when I was young. Or, maybe that was after I had gotten older, and saw this label used for things that I had read in my youth. I can't remember exactly when I first encountered the term. These "juveniles" were books written by Andre Norton, Robert Heinlein, etc.

06-03-2019, 08:35 PM	#21
Little.Egret Wizard Posts: 3,168 Karma: 37800000 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Walton-on-Thames, Surrey, England, UK Device: Kindle Keyboard 3G, Kindle Fire 2, NOOK ST, Kindle HDX, Fire 7"	I have always regarded as a publishers and marketing term. At least one Andre Norton was mainstream in North America and YA in Britain. Catseye IIRC

06-03-2019, 08:51 PM	#22
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,570 Karma: 204127028 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	My main beef is that the YA label seems to be applied in such a frivolous manner. It's not always used where it clearly could apply, and it's sometimes used where the content would be considered adult adult by most people. It's so purely a marketing ploy that it's almost completely meaningless. "Old" Adults sometimes seek it out specifically (that's not a value judgement, by the way) and many "true" Young Adults feel they've outgrown it. My opinion is if the author doesn't specifically call their work YA, I'm not going to think of it as such.

06-04-2019, 05:23 AM	#28
azayn Groupie Posts: 168 Karma: 7934958 Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Chicago Device: Nova 3, Galaxy S22+, iPad	I would say its a combination of the characters - adolescents and people in their 20s - and the topics/storylines are often relateable to experiences had by people in that age bracket. Agree with pwalker8 that YA is more straightforward and direct. I read a lot of YA last year and while some of it was quite enjoyable, it doesn't usually rise to the level of great literature. But then again there are exceptions. "A Tree Grows in Brooklyn", one of my all time favorite novels, is technically YA.