Samhain Publishing is winding down and will close

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

Thank you, both of you, I'll check because I'm not so sure about my liking of traditional publishers (I'm sure I don't like the majority in romance )

Some of the sites will let you request "more of" and ereaderiq and ereadernewstoday has a form that lets you choose "Send me romance" or whatever genre. (I think most have this form.)

[Atunah]

I see very little in publisher books in the bookbub email. Its pretty much majority of indies. Now I do subscribe to specific categories so that might be a reason. I don't look at it as much anymore as I keep seeing the same books and the same authors on it. I subscribed to the best seller category just so I could get some publisher books, but they are often not in a genre I read.

Ereaderiq is better for me to find stuff on sale in the genres I read. I am not talking about the ad emails they have, just the price reductions I check each morning.

Anything pay or ad powered does not make a good "gatekeeper" for me. How could it, its pay to play.

I think the reason so many indies are turned down by bookbub is not that they don't take them, is that every single indy author now thinks they must have a bookbub ad to make it. I keep reading this all the time on the threads over on KB. So basically they have so many wanting to get slots and there are only 30 days in a month. So of course they are going to turn down a lot.

There are so many more SP authors now and they are pumping out so many more books and they all want slots with all those books. They could probably double the prices and still have way more applicants than they could ever fit in.

One thing they kept that makes them still popular is they only list a handful of books each day. I have had ad emails in the past where they just go on and on and on. After like 4-5 books, I lose interest. So it works for them to be selective. They can afford to do that still.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by shalym

I'm sure the authors feel as if Bookbub is making it difficult, but I can assure you that my experience is the same a Blossom's--I get Bookbub emails every day, and *at least* 50% of the books included in the emails are indie.

I think authors need to step out of the author forums and talk to readers. (I'm not including you in that statement--you obviously are the exception) I used to read author forums regularly, and I stopped because too many authors were acting (IMHO) like spoiled children, and it was making me not want to read any of them. They crawl inside their own heads and bounce off of each other, and when an actual *reader* gives feedback, it's ignored.

Sorry for the rant...that just pushed one of my buttons.

Shari

Not arguing--except that it used to be exclusively indies--like a lot of sites, they got their start with indies so 50 percent to authors in can be perceived as "crowding out." MANY bargain sites utilized this method (all three others that no longer take indies also did this--they built their audience with easy-to-find indie books and gradually moved over. Some no longer take indies at all).

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Atunah

I see very little in publisher books in the bookbub email. Its pretty much majority of indies. Now I do subscribe to specific categories so that might be a reason. I don't look at it as much anymore as I keep seeing the same books and the same authors on it. I subscribed to the best seller category just so I could get some publisher books, but they are often not in a genre I read.

.

The "repeat" ads are a problem for all sites. Most won't repeat a book within 90 days, but if a book was successful (sold a lot of copies) they will generally try it again--but they run out of "vetted" books (not run out of books--but run out of "known" good books that are likely to do well).

Believe me, just as with reading, there are days when I can't find a bargain that I want to post. Nothing appeals. It doesn't mean there are no books. It means I simply cannot find one that I think will do well or that looks good, etc.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Their picks are paid for ads, in case that isn't clear. To be in that newsletter, free or otherwise runs 800 and up per day. The entire newsletter is nothing BUT an ad and their "picks" are merely whatever theme or book they have decided upon. They do a decent job of vetting their choices.

Correct.
They are a Groupon for books. Totally ad-supported.
They work on a two-tier system: tradpubs get in by paying and bring tradpub.
Indies get in by having lots of reviews at a high enough level.
Early on they were mostly Indie and small press but these days they rarely accept an indie title at $2.99 or even $1.99 no matter its ratings.

Now, their emails apparently vary by subscriber but what I've heard is that in certain groupings they are sending out almost 100% tradpub.

The matter was looked into last october after the Author Earnings report showed a shift in share from Indies to small and mid-size tradpubs. The BPHs do a lot of business on Bookbub but all it was doing at the time was minimize their price-induced share donations.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

The price of authors for cozies (this is from books I post on my blog) was and still is 7.99 for a lot of them. HOWEVER, for any popular author (Joan Hess -- some of her early books just came out in Kindle this week-- is 9.99 https://www.amazon.com/Malice-Maggod...ords=joan+hess) That's high for a cozy AND it's an old book now in kindle.

That's also from a bit of a specialty reprint publisher that seems to find $7.99-$9.99 their idea price point. A bit high for many, but they seem to be able to sell them fairly well at those price points and allow coupons/discounts and often have many of their books "on sale". I agree it's kind of high (for me anyway), but Open Road has done similar pricing for a lot of titles for a few years now.

The JD Robb new release is 14.99 Hers have been steadily testing higher prices as they were published because the series is very popular. This is true of any genre, anything that is pretty popular.

Hers have been priced the same for years with one exception. All of her releases since mid 2011 have come out at $14.99 (with a corresponding HC release) except one which came out at $13.99. Before mid 2011 they were priced $12.99 at launch. They all drop to $7.99 6 months later when the mass market PB come out. (these hit mmpb after 6 months as opposed to the "standard" one year)

A Death in the Dales -- new cozy release 12.99 https://www.amazon.com/Death-Dales-K...h+in+the+dales) That's VERY high for a cozy release.

Very high for a cozy release if it was a mass market release. Normal for any book when the publisher is releasing it as a hardcover. It's just that not that many cozies get released in anything but mass market paperback. Her other books are higher too, $9.99, because the paper releases are trade paperbacks. It's standard Big 5 pricing and has been the same for years. Big 5 books, except when on sale, always have a tie between paper and ebook pricing like that.

[BearMountainBooks]

I bought JD Robb at mass market prices when they first came out -- they were either 5.99 or 7.99. :>) So the 14.99 that appears now is higher pricing that I paid for the first 3 (this was pre-ebook days!)

As for cozies, no, not many are hardback. That could be it and I only just noticed. All I know is they do not sell from my blog!!!

[AnemicOak]

Yeah, most cozy authors I've purchased have never seen a hardcover release (at least not in the last decade).

You'll talk to some authors that have worked there way to "hardcover status" over time with good sales and some will say it's the worst thing that happened to their career. They sold like gangbusters as mass market titles, so well that the publisher "bumped" them to hardcover status, and two or three books later they're hurting to get any more books published because their latest releases didn't sell all that well.


Others of course, J.D. Robb/Nora Roberts for example, work their way from strictly mass market to major hardcover author and make the jump very well. Their career jumps to another level entirely and they never look back.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Amazon is not a gatekeeper.

Many posts by people on this thread directly involved with independent publishing disagree with you. If Amazon imposes any kind of biased filter, sort or algorithm, or if it makes advertising/visibility more available to some than others, than it is acting as a gatekeeper.

It has been stated repeatedly (though some have said otherwise) that Amazon has made it more difficult for indies to have visibility on the Amazon website than in the past, and in addition, Amazon has made Big 6 publications more visible.

That's a bias. That's a form of gatekeeping. If it's correct (and I presume it is, based on the experience of the poster).

Originally Posted by Atunah

Yeah, I wish they did have some gatekeeping. But there is none. So when browsing for books one has to sift through everything. And I mean everything.
Only filters for use are genre, subgenre and that is all. Not helpful.

Again, that does not quite tally with what very experienced independent writers and publishers have said. They have stated that it is now harder for indie-publishers and writers to gain visibility on the Amazon web-site, while Big 6 publishers are getting more visibility than before.

There appear to be differing opinions on this. I'll have to read through the last two pages when I get a chance to see if it's addressed.

Thanks for your comments.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Yeah, most cozy authors I've purchased have never seen a hardcover release (at least not in the last decade).

The next Miranda James's "Cats in the stack" is going to be a hardcover and there's another series I read about book restoration (I don't remember the name from the top of my head) has been for a couple of releases

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan

The next Miranda James's "Cats in the stack" is going to be a hardcover and there's another series I read about book restoration (I don't remember the name from the top of my head) has been for a couple of releases

Cozies and mysteries in general have been more popular in the last couple of years (per affiliate sales on the blog and my Sedona series outsells my urban fantasy and pretty much always has). Maybe that is why they are pushing more cozy authors to hardback and why I only just noticed it. I don't trust the market for it (meaning I don't really think it can withstand those prices long term). That's a lot of money to pay for a book if we (cozy readers) are used to 7.99 or tolerate the occasional 9.99. But I've been wrong before and readers of my blog are quite likely used to or after a different price point.

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I bought JD Robb at mass market prices when they first came out -- they were either 5.99 or 7.99. :>) So the 14.99 that appears now is higher pricing that I paid for the first 3 (this was pre-ebook days!)

I'm not an expert on the "romance" genre (I like space-rockets!), but I do know that J.D.Robb (like Nalini Singh and Sherillon Kenyon and J.R.Ward) is an extremely talented writer. As such, I would class her as something of an exception. I would imagine publishers could charge more for her because her writing is just so damned good.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Check any author board discussing it. Apparently it is very difficult to get on, even if you are willing to pay their prices and from what I have read --mind you--I have only READ this from authors, I have no personal experience--they were/are only taking indies willing to price at 99 cents or free, while taking trad authors at the higher prices. For a while there, (This was before the christmas season) there was a thread asking if any indie had been accepted at other than free.

I'm sure things change depending what Bookbub is being offered (by both the indie and the trad market) AND by what people are buying.

Well now, I just looked at today's Bookbub.
15 books total.
2 BPH at $1.99 each.
13 indies.
1 free
7 at 99 cents
5 at 1.99
At least in the categories I have picked.

I for one am glad it is hard for authors to get ads there.
Oh and Maria...same sad song different year. The ones that can't get the ads are always gonna whine. Or the ones that can't sell a book.

As far as ereaderiq goes, well I left him when in the cookbook category he was listing a whole bunch of scamlets. That bunch had figured out his algorithm.

Note that Bookbub and OHFB are both advertising less freebies due to the changes in the affiliate program.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by shalym

I'm sure the authors feel as if Bookbub is making it difficult, but I can assure you that my experience is the same a Blossom's--I get Bookbub emails every day, and *at least* 50% of the books included in the emails are indie.

I think authors need to step out of the author forums and talk to readers. (I'm not including you in that statement--you obviously are the exception) I used to read author forums regularly, and I stopped because too many authors were acting (IMHO) like spoiled children, and it was making me not want to read any of them. They crawl inside their own heads and bounce off of each other, and when an actual *reader* gives feedback, it's ignored.

Sorry for the rant...that just pushed one of my buttons.

Shari

Exactly I can tell from those in this thread that some are really out of touch with readers particularly romance readers.

I too have seen the entitlement attitude in some writers forums.

Samhain went down for several reasons but mainly due to readers wanting quality and more plot to their stories. Their bestselling authors left and were never replaced. They were one of the first digital imprints in romance. They have been around for a long time. They focused mostly on the spicier side of romance to erotica. As I said before when 50 Shades happened too many jump on the bandwagon and now the market is shifting away from that the publishers that tried to take advantage of that trend are suffering or going under.

Sent from my XT1528

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by Atunah

Add to that the sheer numbers of new SP authors, the number of books being pumped out. A while back it was put out at least 4 books a year, then it was every 2 months. Then the rallying cry was one must pump out a book every 30 days of fall of some cliff. Now I keep reading more and more pumping out of books every 2 weeks. More and more books written in shorter and shorter time.

IMO good books take longer to write. One sees the occasional exception, but normal human-beings produce lower quality work if they have less time to do it.

IME, some readers are less fussy than others in their reading than others. I am very fussy. Horribly fussy. But other people I know will read long series of books that I wouldn't touch, and they enjoy them. That's great. I'm the loser here But I have noticed that the books I really enjoy do tend to achieve general and outstanding success. So I do think my view on what makes a good back has some validity.

In any case, maybe the (IMO) inevitable lowering of quality of books when writers produce more has had an impact on sales. I mean, the stuff must be getting worse. And it has been stated here that indie authors are raising their prices for these books. Higher prices for lower quality books...There will come a point when readers won't buy.

Of course, I could be utterly wrong on this. The subject is such a morass, but interesting.