Samhain Publishing is winding down and will close

[Pajamaman]

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

Indie sales have slowed as compared to five years ago. KU, libraries, poor quality of some books, FREE books by the boatloat, and less advantageous placement on Amazon/visibility are the big reasons.

So it's a combo of things. K. I appreciate KU has hit actual sales.
Has KU, in general, been a net benefit or loss to indie authors? And has it been net benefit or loss to Amazon?

Originally Posted by BearMountainBooks

I'm seeing a much larger reluctance to accept the new pricing from the big six. As of the first of the year (or possibly earlier but that's about when I noticed) any best selling author is priced at 10 and UP. 14.99 is not unusual. What that appears to have done is cause readers to search out 2.99 books and below. Anything under 5 still sells some copies. Anything over? Nada. Even boxed sets over 5 are having a hard time of it.

So Big 6 book prices have gone up? How much were they before? And why have they all gone up? Is this purely a Big 6 decision, or is Amazon involved?

But I don't quite see how the increased prices of Big 6 books would mean buyers are willing to pay less for an indie. If anything, I would expect buyers to see more value in existing indie-prices. I don't see how a hike in Big 6 book prices would impact indie-sales negatively. To me, it does not seem to follow. Again, perhaps I'm missing something.

Anyway, excuse my ignorance, and thanks for your response.

[AnemicOak]

What I've seen in books I look at is indie books often coming in at a buck less than Big 5 published mass market prices. I haven't really noticed an huge increase in Big 5 pricing myself other than maybe a few more authors first being published in trade paperback where they used to be mass market meaning the initial release of their books digitally is higher. For the most part though it's the same as always. Hardcover releases often = $12.99-$16.99 for digital, Trade = $9.99-$12.99, Mass Market = $5.99-$8.99 (usually $6.99-$7.99). Many self pub authors I used to pay $3.99 for have gone to $4.99 or $5.99

Is it necessarily that indie sales (I guess we're equating indie to self-pubbed?) are down or is it that there is more in the marketplace so sales are spread out to more authors/publishers? (I suspect it's a combo of things)

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

I'm confused. This contradicts what other posters have stated. Clearly Amazon plays a pivotal role in indie electronic publishing. They are the big gatekeeper. Other posters have said that the way Amazon advertises (and lists?) books is now less favorable to indies and more favorable to the Big 5.

Is this true? If so, how has it changed, and why?



Could you clarify that?

Amazon is not a gatekeeper. Anyone can publish a book on Amazon. They may not advertise the book or feature it in anyway but anyone can publish a book on Amazon.
There are only 4 things that Amazon keeps out and 2 ways to get your author account pulled.
The 4 things are daddy/child, rape, beastiality and necropolia as titillating.
The two things that will endanger your account are copyright violations and the faster way is trademark violations. Otherwise anything goes.


Hope this unconfuses you.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

So it's a combo of things. K. I appreciate KU has hit actual sales.
Has KU, in general, been a net benefit or loss to indie authors? And has it been net benefit or loss to Amazon?



So Big 6 book prices have gone up? How much were they before? And why have they all gone up? Is this purely a Big 6 decision, or is Amazon involved?

But I don't quite see how the increased prices of Big 6 books would mean buyers are willing to pay less for an indie. If anything, I would expect buyers to see more value in existing indie-prices. I don't see how a hike in Big 6 book prices would impact indie-sales negatively. To me, it does not seem to follow. Again, perhaps I'm missing something.

Anyway, excuse my ignorance, and thanks for your response.

If KU wasn't a benefit to Amazon, they wouldn't have kept it.

[Blossom]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

There was crap before and there is crap now. That doesn't explain why (if) people are buying less of it.

Do you read romance? I see alot of people on this thread that are quite clueless when it comes to romance readers and how we buy books.

The romance reader is a special breed. We don't think like several of you in this thread that have been speculating why things in the romance marketing is changing.

Remember it was us romance readers that brought Scribd to its knees.

There wasn't crap in Romance before the indie boom. Sorry to say you are wrong on this, very wrong. Romance has always produced good quality reads when Indie happen we flocked to it because suddenly we saw writing that was outside the rules that publishers had for authors who write romance. As Atunuh said so many crappy writers jumped on the 50 Shades bandwidth and flooded the market with junk.

Romance publishers had always been very careful what made it to print with indie authors anyone can throw a book up. This is the markets downfall. We romance readers crave quality, well editing stories and we can get that in the big publishers or authors we trust.



Sent from my XT1528

[Atunah]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Amazon is not a gatekeeper. Anyone can publish a book on Amazon. They may not advertise the book or feature it in anyway but anyone can publish a book on Amazon.
There are only 4 things that Amazon keeps out and 2 ways to get your author account pulled.
The 4 things are daddy/child, rape, beastiality and necropolia as titillating.
The two things that will endanger your account are copyright violations and the faster way is trademark violations. Otherwise anything goes.


Hope this unconfuses you.

Yeah, I wish they did have some gatekeeping. But there is none. So when browsing for books one has to sift through everything. And I mean everything.
Only filters for use are genre, subgenre and that is all. Not helpful.

I just wonder how many folks have just stopped browsing the store like I used to do. I used to spend some time each week going through all the new releases, or stuff coming up in the next week. Found some great stuff that way in the past. I also miss the best seller list that goes past the top 100. It used to be a infinity list. I used to love going in the 500's, 1000's to start looking for reads. I don't care about popularity, or featured. I liked seeing what was a best seller in the 500's-1000's. No clue why they took that away.

Purchasing shifts when browsing patters shift. Lots of folks seemed to have wanted a free for all market. But most readers eventually drift back to "gatekeepers". Most of us don't have time to sift through 1000 of crap to find one book that might be decent. Those gatekeepers are other readers, bigger blogs, lists, etc. And if many of those blogs and readers tend to lean towards trade published stuff and not so much towards indy/SP, then those are the results.

Add to that the sheer numbers of new SP authors, the number of books being pumped out. A while back it was put out at least 4 books a year, then it was every 2 months. Then the rallying cry was one must pump out a book every 30 days of fall of some cliff. Now I keep reading more and more pumping out of books every 2 weeks. More and more books written in shorter and shorter time. Unless the readers multiply in the same rate, there is just way more stuff out there to ever be read. Its overwhelming. Like going to the store and there is a 20 foot section on beans. or a isle full of cereal. I now do most of my shopping at a Trader's Joe. 2 feet of beans and pre-selected quality. I spend less time and less stress shopping. And I eat good. So maybe readers are getting to be like that too. Or I should say again as we had the gatekeepers in the past already.

[Atunah]

Originally Posted by Blossom

Do you read romance? I see alot of people on this thread that are quite clueless when it comes to romance readers and how we buy books.

The romance reader is a special breed. We don't think like several of you in this thread that have been speculating why things in the romance marketing is changing.

Remember it was us romance readers that brought Scribd to its knees.

There wasn't crap in Romance before the indie boom. Sorry to say you are wrong on this, very wrong. Romance has always produced good quality reads when Indie happen we flocked to it because suddenly we saw writing that was outside the rules that publishers had for authors who write romance. As Atunuh said so many crappy writers jumped on the 50 Shades bandwidth and flooded the market with junk.

Romance publishers had always been very careful what made it to print with indie authors anyone can throw a book up. This is the markets downfall. We romance readers crave quality, well editing stories and we can get that in the big publishers or authors we trust.



Sent from my XT1528

Yup, spot on. And more often than not, I find my way to publishers to get that quality. They know the genres. I don't have to wonder if those authors know what the genre is. I don't have to answer the question again to an aspiring author "Do I write romance? I have sex in my book is it a romance?"

Trust is huge with romance readers. And we are after all the ones carrying the industry, before and after indy authors.

[BearMountainBooks]

Originally Posted by Pajamaman

So it's a combo of things. K. I appreciate KU has hit actual sales.
Has KU, in general, been a net benefit or loss to indie authors? And has it been net benefit or loss to Amazon?



So Big 6 book prices have gone up? How much were they before? And why have they all gone up? Is this purely a Big 6 decision, or is Amazon involved?

But I don't quite see how the increased prices of Big 6 books would mean buyers are willing to pay less for an indie. If anything, I would expect buyers to see more value in existing indie-prices. I don't see how a hike in Big 6 book prices would impact indie-sales negatively. To me, it does not seem to follow. Again, perhaps I'm missing something.

Anyway, excuse my ignorance, and thanks for your response.

The price of authors for cozies (this is from books I post on my blog) was and still is 7.99 for a lot of them. HOWEVER, for any popular author (Joan Hess -- some of her early books just came out in Kindle this week-- is 9.99 https://www.amazon.com/Malice-Maggod...ords=joan+hess) That's high for a cozy AND it's an old book now in kindle.

The JD Robb new release is 14.99 Hers have been steadily testing higher prices as they were published because the series is very popular. This is true of any genre, anything that is pretty popular.

A Death in the Dales -- new cozy release 12.99 https://www.amazon.com/Death-Dales-K...h+in+the+dales) That's VERY high for a cozy release.
Cozy mysteries are sort of like romance back in the days when readers went through them a book or more a day. They are lighter fare for the most part and readers go through them so quickly, that a high price can be a real turnoff.

Queen of the Cookbooks 9.99 --there isn't even a hardback book for this cozy--this is just the paperback/Kindle release by Penguin.

Last week I went through TWO pages of new releases and it was the same as above. 9.99 to 14.99.


The average price of a new release was 5.99 to 7.99 (Kindle or mass market) until recently. I noticed in early this year, but it was probably earlier than that.

There are multiple types of readers/customers. Some sort purchases by:

1. I'll pay this much for a book
2. I'll pay this much for an indie and this much for a trad publisher
3. I'll pay this much for my favorite author

So while the lower prices of indies do attract some readers, as you can see from this thread, some readers won't buy indie at all or only on a strong rec from someone else--even then they will often demand a very low price BECAUSE it is indie. I have had readers tell me that 3.99 is too much for an indie book EVEN if they get the first for free or 99 cents. That's fine; everyone is entitled to set their own shopping rules.


KU has helped some authors and hurt others. Many authors gave KU a try and then pulled their books out. Amazon changed the rules to offer bonuses to the highest/most read books specifically to attract authors who have higher earning power. Essentially authors who can price above 2.99 and sell are typically going to make more by being OUT of KU. KU, on the other hand, can help some authors get discovered. They will make more by being in KU because they get page reads (and without those they might be entirely invisible).

What I typically see of KU subscribers is a hunt for "Can you rec a KU book so I don't have to read 10 to find 1?" They want to make sure to get their monies worth from their subscription, so they stick to reading KU selections. They will specifically look for recs that are in KU. I used to mention whether a book was in KU or not on my blog when posting, but 1. I make no money from affiliate referrals for KU 2. The author may not stay in KU so my note is meaningless.

I tried KU and made less with the books in there than out. I make more money being "wide" than just on Amazon. KU did me no favors, but in fairness, I didn't take advantage of it early (I was selling far too many books at that time to even consider it seriously). It has proven more popular with readers than I expected.

Amazon (and all companies) love subscriptions. They may not make money on all readers, but many readers will forget they have it, tire of searching for books and just buy the ones they want...and Amazon still collects 10 dollars a month.

Just my 2 cents.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Amazon is not a gatekeeper. Anyone can publish a book on Amazon. They may not advertise the book or feature it in anyway but anyone can publish a book on Amazon.
There are only 4 things that Amazon keeps out and 2 ways to get your author account pulled.
The 4 things are daddy/child, rape, beastiality and necropolia as titillating.
The two things that will endanger your account are copyright violations and the faster way is trademark violations. Otherwise anything goes.


Hope this unconfuses you.

But have a look at how long it took Amazon to get off their collective asses and take down the bogus Mary Stewart eBooks. I reported them a few times and nothing. It may have taken getting the UK publisher involved to get them taken down. So from what I see is that it is very easy to put up something that's in violation of copyright and have it there for too long.

[JSWolf]

Using the example of Echoes in Death by J. D. Robb, in the UK the eBook is priced £9.99 which is cheaper than the US eBook at $14.99.

In the UK, the mass market paperback is due out at £7.19 on August 1, 2017. I'm wondering how long it will take before the eBook drops in price to match the paperback version.

In the US, the mass market paperback is due out at $8.09 (way to go raising the price) on August 1, 2017. I'm wondering how long it will take before the eBook drops in price to match the paperback version. Will the eBook price be $7.99 or will it be $8.09?

The thing is, book prices are mostly stupid these days. Prices are all over the place and paper formats are also all over the place.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Using the example of Echoes in Death by J. D. Robb, in the UK the eBook is priced £9.99 which is cheaper than the US eBook at $14.99.

And it's US $2.05 with tax in South Africa, different markets have always had different prices.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But have a look at how long it took Amazon to get off their collective asses and take down the bogus Mary Stewart eBooks. I reported them a few times and nothing. It may have taken getting the UK publisher involved to get them taken down. So from what I see is that it is very easy to put up something that's in violation of copyright and have it there for too long.

It is best to only report once, then find others to report.
Note: I did say the faster way was to violate trademark.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

But have a look at how long it took Amazon to get off their collective asses and take down the bogus Mary Stewart eBooks. I reported them a few times and nothing. It may have taken getting the UK publisher involved to get them taken down. So from what I see is that it is very easy to put up something that's in violation of copyright and have it there for too long.

This is true anywhere, not specific to Amazon.

Just like pirated DVD's & CD's, etc. on eBay. If they jumped every time someone reported something as bogus without any kind of verification they'd be opening themselves up to all kinds of problems. It generally will take a copyright holder to get things done at any speed and often times those copyright holders (if they're big corporations) move at a snails pace provided you can get in contact with the right people to begin with.

[Fbone]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

What I've seen in books I look at is indie books often coming in at a buck less than Big 5 published mass market prices. I haven't really noticed an huge increase in Big 5 pricing myself other than maybe a few more authors first being published in trade paperback where they used to be mass market meaning the initial release of their books digitally is higher. For the most part though it's the same as always. Hardcover releases often = $12.99-$16.99 for digital, Trade = $9.99-$12.99, Mass Market = $5.99-$8.99 (usually $6.99-$7.99). Many self pub authors I used to pay $3.99 for have gone to $4.99 or $5.99

If we factor inflation (and one always must when dealing with long-term price comparison), the price of Big 5 titles probably have decreased. For example a $14.99 in 2009 should cost $16.77 today. But we're not seeing many fiction titles hit that price. On the other hand, indies, as you said, went from $2.99 up to $5.99 today, well above inflation rates.

Another thing to consider, the gov't tells us the economy and unemployment has improved considerably since 2009. Average wages (AWI according to the SSA) was $39,054.62 in 2009. In 2015 it was $46,119.78. It's even higher in 2017. Also, many states have increased minimum wages. Unemployment rate in the US hit 10% in Oct 2009 and today it's 4.8%.

It's possible people (USA) have more disposable income and are going back to their old familiar authors. Catching up with what they missed.

[Blossom]

The unemployment rate is seriously altered. There are so many people out of work right now but unemployment laws have changed so they don't qualify for unemployment and are not counted in that percentage.

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