Kobo Bug thread

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by Muttly

Well, yes, that's as may be but I'm comparing to the Kindles I've used for years that just worked. Every time, every book, with no problems whatsoever.

Originally Posted by Muttly

Sorry to harp on about it, but I'm used to the Kindle that just works straight out of the box. No patching or kludging required.

"Just works" is a very subjective statement. Thousands of MR members have felt the need to jailbreak their Kindles, which is a pretty big patch/kludge. Thousands more lament the inability to find a font or a font-size which is "just right" for them. Or perhaps that they can't automatically align their Kindle Collections with their calibre Collections ... etc ... etc. The list of what some MR members want that their Kindle won't do out-of-the-box is quite long.

Originally Posted by Muttly

At least as far as the font files were concerned. (It turns out they have not disappeared. The Kobo just refuses to use the standard font, insisting on using the bold.)

If you're seeing that problem in kepubs but not standard epubs, that's probably a problem with the font files you've sideloaded not the Kobo firmware. It's fixable but, unfortunately for you, not without editing the misbehaving font files. More kludging I'm afraid.

If your Kindles suit you so well why on earth are you persisting with the Kobo, just return it and get your money back. Were you expecting the AuraOne to be "just like a Kindle but with a big screen" or something? When you change brand it's to be expected that "you win a few and you lose a few".

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

When you change brand it's to be expected that "you win a few and you lose a few".

When I switched from Sony to Kobo, I lost one feature I would still like to have. In the NCX ToC, Sony showed the ADE page number for the chapters. That was a nice feature to have.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

When I switched from Sony to Kobo, I lost one feature I would still like to have. In the NCX ToC, Sony showed the ADE page number for the chapters. That was a nice feature to have.

Yes, I liked that "page numbers shown in ToC" feature, too, and the collapsible nested ToC. I also much preferred the Sony PDF reading software. On the whole, though, I feel I gained more than I lost when moving from Sony to Kobo.

[JoOrwick]

Has anyone else noticed really small word spacing with hyphenation turned on? It only happens in 1-2 lines per page. It's quite distracting and it makes reading hard with certain words. It's almost like I'm reading a giant word.
It's only a couple of lines every page or so, but it's really annoying.

[Muttly]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

"Just works" is a very subjective statement. Thousands of MR members have felt the need to jailbreak their Kindles, which is a pretty big patch/kludge. Thousands more lament the inability to find a font or a font-size which is "just right" for them. Or perhaps that they can't automatically align their Kindle Collections with their calibre Collections ... etc ... etc. The list of what some MR members want that their Kindle won't do out-of-the-box is quite long.

It's not really that subjective.

To a reasonable person 'just works' means it does what it says it will do.

Randomly dropping dictionaries and fonts, running the battery down whilst inactive, failing to honour indentation, and having a keyboard where you have to press well to the left of what yo want to get it to register correctly is certainly at odds with that definition.

Not happening to find any font size 'perfect' for themselves (unless the device is advertised as having pseudo-infinitely variable font size) isn't. Neither is working faultlessly with software with which it is not advertised as being compatible.

If you're seeing that problem in kepubs but not standard epubs, that's probably a problem with the font files you've sideloaded not the Kobo firmware. It's fixable but, unfortunately for you, not without editing the misbehaving font files. More kludging I'm afraid.

It worked faultlessly with the first two book I read after installation. Then it stopped working. All the books were kepubs.

BTW, Font files do not 'behave'. They are static. IF (and it's a very big if) a font file is faulty the normal result would be no display or faulty rendering. They would not get substituted (unless they were so broken that the software did not recognise the header).

Even a faulty font file would hardly explain why the same book would display the font at one time and not another.

If your Kindles suit you so well why on earth are you persisting with the Kobo, just return it and get your money back.

No thanks. I rather like it.

That does not mean I can't try and get answers to problems I'm having with it. And it does not mean I can't complain about the release of shoddy firmware.

Were you expecting the AuraOne to be "just like a Kindle but with a big screen" or something?

Well, duh, yes.

In that I expected it to do what it is supposed to do according to the specifications, and behaving in a consistent and correct manner is one of those things.

if When you change brand it's to be expected that "you win a few and you lose a few".

Quite.

And I was prepared for it to be bigger, not fit my case, heavier, have slightly shorter battery life, have an inferior dictionary, and be of a marginally lower build quality. I was quite happy to trade those disadvantages for the bigger screen.

What I wasn't expecting was the list of bugs mentioned above.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Muttly

LOL!

Well, yes, that's as may be but I'm comparing to the Kindles I've used for years that just worked. Every time, every book, with no problems whatsoever.

Just because something's not particularly buggy compared to something (a previous Kobo) that's quite buggy itself doesn't mean it's not extremely buggy.

Well, in a thread about reporting bugs in the Kobo firmware, who cares about how many bugs are in the firmware on other devices? That was the view I was expressing. And disagreeing with your statement of "extremely buggy".

Actually, I did (post #741). At least as far as the font files were concerned.

Yes, but you only told me that after I had made comments about how files could disappear. Read what I said again. Maybe if my first sentence had been:

Before this point, you had not told us when ...

(It turns out they have not disappeared. The Kobo just refuses to use the standard font, insisting on using the bold.)

Had you restarted the device after adding the fonts? This is required. I think the recent firmware is recognising the fonts immediately, but I wouldn't guarantee that they are used properly. And the the firmware is picky about the file names and the internal names of the fonts being consistent and in a particular format. If these are wrong the fonts aren't used properly. If there are any issues and these are not correct, then you cannot expect thing to work properly.

I'm to lazy to go back and look, but have you posted a link to the font? That gives others a chance to test and see if they have similar problems.

The Kobo software knows if the file system is in a stable state. If it processes a shut down request when the file system is unstable, then that is a bug. Even Windows gets that right!

Read my post. I said "force a restart". Not, "shutdown and restart". If the device crashes and restarts, or you hold the power button down for 20 seconds or so, then the device does not get a chance to shutdown cleanly and the file systems might be dirty. Exactly the same as if I pulled the power cord out of my Windows desktop.

None of the above.

OK.

Sorry to harp on about it, but I'm used to the Kindle that just works straight out of the box. No patching or kludging required.

And absolutely no patching or kludging needed for the Kobos. What people CHOOSE to do is up to them.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by doubleshuffle

Thanks a lot.

Stupid question: If the annotations file is deleted or not created at all (methods 3 and 4), won't the annotations be gone as well?

No. The annotations are stored in the database for all books. But, for epubs. and possibly PDFs, on the main storage, the annotations file is also maintained. When the book is reopened, the annotations file is read and effectively replaces the annotations in the database. While doing this, what is used to create the location description is messed up.

[Muttly]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Well, in a thread about reporting bugs in the Kobo firmware, who cares about how many bugs are in the firmware on other devices? That was the view I was expressing. And disagreeing with your statement of "extremely buggy".

All I was saying was that, compared with the Kindle, the Kobo is very buggy.

Yes, but you only told me that after I had made comments about how files could disappear. Read what I said again.

Sorry to say it but that's just daft! The point was I mentioned it before you said I didn't.

Had you restarted the device after adding the fonts? This is required. I think the recent firmware is recognising the fonts immediately, but I wouldn't guarantee that they are used properly.

Yes, and the fonts were used 'properly' for two entire books.

And the the firmware is picky about the file names and the internal names of the fonts being consistent [see what I mean about buggy? I've never come across any other piece of software that give a hoot what the file name is (extension, maybe but that is deprecated, now)] and in a particular format.

Well, yes, the format is obviously important, but it's well defined and the files work perfectly well in Window's application. They also worked perfectly well for two books on the KOBO. Indeed, one of them still works, it's just that it's picking the wrong weight.

If these are wrong the fonts are used properly.

If there are any issues and these are not correct, then you cannot expect thing to work properly.

Of course not, but given that they worked perfectly happily for about 700 pages it looks to me as if there are not any issues with the files. The fault appears to lie with the Kobo.

Read my post. I said "force a restart". Not, "shutdown and restart". If the device crashes and restarts, or you hold the power button down for 20 seconds or so, then the device does not get a chance to shutdown cleanly and the file systems might be dirty. Exactly the same as if I pulled the power cord out of my Windows desktop.

Well, crashing is not 'forcing a restart'. It's the device responding to a BUG from which it cannot recover.

As for holding down the power button (which, incidentally, I did not do), I'm not sure how much you know about software and how it functions, but I would be intrigued to know what you think the Kobo could be doing, internally, for 20 seconds between finishing one book and starting another - that would leave the font files present but somehow stop the device using them properly.

(BTW, before you suggest it, copying the files OFF the Kobo and installing them on Windows, they work perfectly.

And absolutely no patching or kludging needed for the Kobos. What people CHOOSE to do is up to them.

That's nice to hear.

Let's just hope that all these bugs disappear when the new firmware is released.

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by Muttly

Let's just hope that all these bugs disappear when the new firmware is released.

Problem is, bugs which are shared for a lot of people (battery, for example,) and which are more or less diagnosed, have a chance of going away (I don't say they go, mind you, but they have a chance). Bug reported by one person (I hope you have reported to Kobo customer support, I don't remember if you have told it, sorry), and not diagnosed, have very little to no chance of going away.

And yes, Kobo can be used out of the box, I know a lot of people who use them in that way.

[JSWolf]

A lot of issues with Readers are due to problems in books. If the books are not structurally correct, the Reader might have an issue with it because what it expects is not correct. I've read of issues on Sony, Amazon, B&N, Kobo, and others. So maybe there's a book or so that's messed up in some way that the Reader does not like.

[doubleshuffle]

Originally Posted by davidfor

No. The annotations are stored in the database for all books. But, for epubs. and possibly PDFs, on the main storage, the annotations file is also maintained. When the book is reopened, the annotations file is read and effectively replaces the annotations in the database. While doing this, what is used to create the location description is messed up.

I understand. Thank you very much once more!

[Terisa de morgan]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

A lot of issues with Readers are due to problems in books. If the books are not structurally correct, the Reader might have an issue with it because what it expects is not correct. I've read of issues on Sony, Amazon, B&N, Kobo, and others. So maybe there's a book or so that's messed up in some way that the Reader does not like.

That situation is called "Bad exception / error management". It's a software problem in my book .

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by Muttly

All I was saying was that, compared with the Kindle, the Kobo is very buggy.

And the fact a Kindle has different bugs to a Kobo has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

Sorry to say it but that's just daft! The point was I mentioned it before you said I didn't.

And I was pointing out that my phrasing was bad and that you hadn't PREVIOUSLY pointed this out.

Yes, and the fonts were used 'properly' for two entire books.

Or possibly they were not "properly" used but just looked like they were.

Well, yes, the format is obviously important, but it's well defined and the files work perfectly well in Window's application.

And as it is unlikely that the Kobo device shares code with any Windows application, and probably loads and uses the fonts in other ways, then whether it works elsewhere is only important in demonstrating the fonts are probably valid.

And the bit the automatic quoting didn't handle this bit:

[see what I mean about buggy? I've never come across any other piece of software that give a hoot what the file name is (extension, maybe but that is deprecated, now)]

Really, not application that cares about file names? That's BS. I have plenty of applications that care about the file names they are using. Anything that uses a DLL cares. Or the various configuration files.

They also worked perfectly well for two books on the KOBO. Indeed, one of them still works, it's just that it's picking the wrong weight.

Sorry, is the font working or not? Is it working for one of those books or not? Your phrasing doesn't tell me whether the font is working but wit the wrong weight for all books, or for one of the books it initially worked on.

Woops. I missed putting in the negative when I fiddled with some phrasing as I wrote the post.

Of course not, but given that they worked perfectly happily for about 700 pages it looks to me as if there are not any issues with the files. The fault appears to lie with the Kobo.

And as it is unlikely that the Kobo device shares code with any Windows application, and probably loads and uses the fonts in other ways, then whether it works elsewhere is only important in demonstrating the fonts are probably valid. What the Kobo software does, or one of the library it uses

Well, crashing is not 'forcing a restart'. It's the device responding to a BUG from which it cannot recover.

Well, a crash that causes a restart is a "forced restart", but I wasn't really meaning that. I was mainly giving another example of how the file system could get into a dirty state and have to be fixed.

As for holding down the power button (which, incidentally, I did not do), I'm not sure how much you know about software and how it functions, but I would be intrigued to know what you think the Kobo could be doing, internally, for 20 seconds between finishing one book and starting another - that would leave the font files present but somehow stop the device using them properly.

I'm not sure why you ran those two things together as they have nothing to do with each other. The "holding the button down" is about forcing the device off in such way that could cause file system corruption. If you haven't done that, then good as it eliminates a possibility.

As I don't have access to the source code, I have no real idea what the firmware is doing between books. I do know it is updating the database in several ways, it's closing the first book and hopefully clearing memory properly, it's showing you the list of books that you might want to read which means it is either reading the cover image from the "disk" or the cache or generating them (depends on the book type, whether they are on the disk, or in the cache), formatting the list for you, opening the book, formatting the new book...

Should I go on?

Which one of those steps failed, I don't know. But, apparently one did and the fonts are not being used properly.

(BTW, before you suggest it, copying the files OFF the Kobo and installing them on Windows, they work perfectly.

But, are they properly named on the device? If they are you have a bug. If they aren't, you have a different bug.

That's nice to hear.

Let's just hope that all these bugs disappear when the new firmware is released.

Yes, hopefully bugs will be fixed in the next firmware. Have you reported these problems to Kobo? If you don't they won't be able to fix them as they might not know about the bug.

And one thing to be clear about here, I am not saying that bugs do not exist in the Kobo firmware. But, you are describing a bug that NO ONE else has reported here. Lots of people here use sideloaded fonts with no problems. If only you are seeing a problem, that suggests that it is something about your setup that is the problem. Or is important in triggering the bug. It might be the font, the books, or something else I can't think of at the moment. I know I can't reproduce it, but I don't have the same fonts and books.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by Muttly

BTW, Font files do not 'behave'. They are static. IF (and it's a very big if) a font file is faulty the normal result would be no display or faulty rendering. They would not get substituted (unless they were so broken that the software did not recognise the header).

Even a faulty font file would hardly explain why the same book would display the font at one time and not another.

There are several MR members who know more than I do about Kobo font handling. It's clear to me that you're not one of them. It shouldn't be a great surprise that a font (Bookerly) created specifically for Amazon reading apps and Amazon proprietary (undocumented) ebook formats may not work as-is in a Kobo proprietary ebook format (kepub) in a Kobo proprietary reading app (Access). A little tweaking of the font internal settings is required. Continual whining will not fix your Bold vs. not-Bold issue with Bookerly in kepubs. I'll leave you to find your own way to the relevant fix - or not. Stick with standard epubs if you want to use Bookerly as-is.

Originally Posted by Muttly

No thanks. I rather like it.

Amazing, I'd never have guessed.

Originally Posted by Muttly

That does not mean I can't try and get answers to problems I'm having with it.

Based on your attitude in the last few posts, I can't think of a worse way of going about it. I've heard enough, I'm off.

[Muttly]

Originally Posted by davidfor

And the fact a Kindle has different bugs to a Kobo has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

No, it has to do with your denial that the Aura One software is very buggy.

Since 'very buggy' would generally be a somewhat relative statement I simply pointed out that I was relating the Kobo to the Kindle, of which I have had several, and on which the only bug I have found if that the reading speed is wrong and inconsistent to a bizarre extent. On the Kobo, however, I can cite a long list of bugs the I have personally found, leading me to the conclusion that this software is buggy and 'unfinished'.

Or possibly they were not "properly" used but just looked like they were.

That's gobbledegook in this context. The Kobo rendered two books perfectly well using Bookerly correctly. Then it refused to use the Bookerly regular font and rendered everything in Bookerly bold.

And as it is unlikely that the Kobo device shares code with any Windows application, and probably loads and uses the fonts in other ways, then whether it works elsewhere is only important in demonstrating the fonts are probably valid.

Correct. The fonts are valid. The Kobo is just not handling them correctly.

Really, not application that cares about file names? That's BS. I have plenty of applications that care about the file names they are using. Anything that uses a DLL cares. Or the various configuration files.

Sorry, I didn't realise how little you know about software.

Yes, of course individual files have significant names. What no decent software does is try and tie multiple instance header containing file contents with their names. There is absolutely no point in doing that. The name of the typeface is the name in the header file.

Sorry, is the font working or not? Is it working for one of those books or not?

I said: (P #758)

"Well, yes, the format is obviously important, but it's well defined and the files work perfectly well in Window's application. They also worked perfectly well for two books on the KOBO. Indeed, one of them still works, it's just that it's picking the wrong weight."

Your phrasing doesn't tell me whether the font is working but wit the wrong weight for all books, or for one of the books it initially worked on.

I said: (P #733)

"Secondly, it seems to have 'lost' a font. I loaded Bookerly, and used it quite happily to read a couple of books, then, when I started the next, the whole thing displayed in bold. I assumed it was a problem with the book, and soldiered on, but when I finished it, I discovered that all books displayed in bold only, and had to change typeface to get a normal weight."

As you seem to be having problems, let me guide you through it in simple steps. Then you may understand why I am all but certain it is not a problem with the font files:

1) USB loaded fonts onto Kobo
2) Ejected Kobo
3) Kobo says it is processing
4) New fonts appeared correctly
5) Read two books with new font with no problems whatsoever
6) Without any intervening connection to a computer, started a new book
7) New book displayed in bold
8) All books, including the two I had already successfully read now display in bold.
9) Did a hard restart
10 ) Problem remained.
11) Deleted one of the books I'd read successfully.
12) Current situation, ALL books display in bold when using Bookerly. (To spell it out, yes, that includes the one that initially displayed correctly.)

As I don't have access to the source code, I have no real idea what the firmware is doing between books. I do know it is updating the database in several ways, it's closing the first book and hopefully clearing memory properly, it's showing you the list of books that you might want to read which means it is either reading the cover image from the "disk" or the cache or generating them (depends on the book type, whether they are on the disk, or in the cache), formatting the list for you, opening the book, formatting the new book...

Should I go on?

No, because all you are doing is demonstrating that you don't really understand the intricacies of a file system - or where the file system is used and where main memory is used.