Hugo, Campbell and Alfie Awards

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem is that any votes that were given to VD's choices takes away from real choices and spoils the awards.

This assumes VD's nominations aren't "real choices". They are for those inclined to select them. The issue was ballot box stuffing that pushed other entries off the ballot.

Sorry, but as long as VD continues to try to game the system, the system will be broken.

There are active efforts to change the system to make it impossible for folks like VD to game it, and I believe changes to the voting process were one of the things discussed at the Worldcon Business Meeting.

This is not the first time people have tried to game the voting. It's simply had the worst side effects.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

This is not a political issue. It is not a religious issue. So why would it best fit in P&R? The last time the Hugo awards were games, the discussions did not go to P&R.

This would be appropriate for P&R because the motivations of the gamers are intensely political, and how you feel about the gaming will be affected by how you feel about their politics.
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Dennis

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Phogg

VD was not anywhere close to being the first to game the system.
He just did it so flagrantly and "in your face" that it made the flaws impossible to defend or ignore.

I suspect that the opportunity to mock those who suddenly became offended with his choices was part of his motivation for embarking on the endeavor to begin with. He seems to thrive on confrontation.

Confrontation generates free publicity.
Lots of people have now heard the name they otherwise wouldn't.
It's not quite true that "there's no such thing as bad publicity" but it's close.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

There are active efforts to change the system to make it impossible for folks like VD to game it, and I believe changes to the voting process were one of the things discussed at the Worldcon Business Meeting.

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Dennis

Unless they can institute a voting system that encompasses more than a tiny fraction of the genre reader base (likely impossible) the most they can ensure is that *his* brand of gaming can't succeed. And in the process make it easier for gamers with other agendas.

There is an example of this staring all of us in the face right now...
...in the political arena.

Some things can't be fixed once they are known to be broken.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

This would be appropriate for P&R because the motivations of the gamers are intensely political, and how you feel about the gaming will be affected by how you feel about their politics.
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Dennis

Yup.
The can is so full of worms it bounces like a jumping bean.

[DiapDealer]

So we're not even going to pretend to try and honor the OP'S wishes then, huh? Sad.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Unless they can institute a voting system that encompasses more than a tiny fraction of the genre reader base (likely impossible) the most they can ensure is that *his* brand of gaming can't succeed. And in the process make it easier for gamers with other agendas.

The Hugos are a popularity award. I've been in discussions elsewhere about the process, where the issue was greater representation of minority groups in the awards.

My response was "It's population demographics. It will happen. As more people of color read the genre, and write in it, there will be more likelihood of people of color getting nominated for and receiving awards. The question isn't whether it will happen, it's when, and this discussion is ultimately about how to speed the process.

Meanwhile, it's a popular vote. Vote with your wallet. Buy a supporting membership to an upcoming Worldcon, which will give you voting rights, and nominate stuff you think is worthy. When the ballots are issued, pick which you think should get awards."

The people who nominate and vote for Hugo Awards are the members of the Worldcon that awards them. They are of necessity a tiny fraction of the total genre readership. (The Worldcon has between 5K and 10K members, depending on which one you point at.) Whether they are representative of the total genre readership is unknowable. But the folks administering the Hugos have been trying hard to get out the vote and increase the number of folks voting. (They've also been pushing hard to get copies of everything nominated to voting members in at least electronic form, so voters can actually read the works nominated that year. Many earlier awards had been "body of work" awards, because voters hadn't read current stuff nominated.)

I've been involved in organized SF fandom for over four decades, and have worked on Worldcons among others. I know a lot of the folks involved in efforts to make the voting process more resilient and less subject to gaming. (And some of them have subject matter expertise in voting systems and actually know something about the topic.) They'll do their best to improve it. Perfection is not possible.
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Dennis

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by WT Sharpe

All the info you need can be found in the first post of this thread.

Thank you!

[meeera]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I need to read Okorafor's Binti. A lot of people really seemed to love it. I've always been a fan of her shorter work, but her novels have been pretty hit or miss with me. I read Lagoon this year and found it ... OK.

The first thing i loved of hers was Akata Witch. I really need to get to read more of the novels, but I'm still revelling in The Obelisk Gate right now.

[MikeB1972]

It seems I am still diametrically opposed in my voting to most of the hugo voters

The winners of Novel, Novella & Novelette were all placed last in my voting, and my first choice came 4th or 5th in each.
Still we agreed on short story so there may be some hope

[pwalker8]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

So we're not even going to pretend to try and honor the OP'S wishes then, huh? Sad.

Perhaps more people would have been willing if the OP hadn't taken a shot at the Dead Puppies, before asking for no comments about the battle between the cliques that the Hugos are. If you want other people to restrain, you should probably restrain yourself as well.

My comments are like most years, the winners are works I have very little interest in. If other people like them, more power to them.

[DiapDealer]

You must have a very different definition of "shot" than I do (unless you're talking about a different irrelevant thread). And it's Sad or Rabid--no Dead.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You must have a very different definition of "shot" than I do (unless you're talking about a different irrelevant thread). And it's Sad or Rabid--no Dead.

Well, they have been rabid for 3 years, pretty sure they should be dead by now

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

It seems I am still diametrically opposed in my voting to most of the hugo voters

The winners of Novel, Novella & Novelette were all placed last in my voting, and my first choice came 4th or 5th in each.
Still we agreed on short story so there may be some hope

The other selections in those categories are no slouches either. It would have been hard for me to vote against Seveneves and The Builders myself (if I were a Hugo voter). I hadn't read any of the novelette noms.

[DrNefario]

I've only read Uprooted, which I just finished on Sunday morning before I saw the results. I didn't really think it was up there with the greats, even though it has already won a couple of other awards. I was still sort of hoping it would win, since I've read every best novel winner to date, and it would have been nice not to have to go out of my way to read this year's.

Edit: I guess I also need to read the Retro Hugo winner, Slan by AE Van Vogt.