The Vent and Rant Thread - Page 1855

Cinisajoy · 05-24-2016, 10:50 AM

Luckily when my grandmother redid her kitchen, she made sure the cabinets were taller than standard. I think she was thinking of her grandchildren rather than her two girls. She was 5'4. All her grandchildren grew up to be 5'8 or taller. Her taller daughter is 5'2.

At Katsunami,
With all the dishes and pans and miscellaneous kitchen stuff, we built a bookcase style pantry that when our back door is open you can't see it. Though there is a side benefit, nothing can get shoved to the back of the cabinet.
For those who are wondering, the lower shelves are designed to hold 60 cans. 3 cans deep, 10 across , 2 high. With about a half an inch clearance on top.Note: these are your standard 16 oz cans.

Now the strange thing my grandmother did at one point was carpet the kitchen.

Yes, I am in my grandmother's house.

eschwartz · 05-24-2016, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Ah, I get you. I remember stuff like that from the NT says. Still works, eh? Sad.
In this case, I changed her pwd, so it would not apply (it can't recover previous pwds, can it?

),

Nope, for that you need to pull out the (government-issue) electron microscope.

Even Windows doesn't keep backups of old, deleted passwords.

Quote:

but as you say, I was not concerned about that sort of effort, I was concerned about actually giving out the password. That's just Ferris Beuller handing the Ferrari keys to parking attendant. How can anyone resist trying it. Especially since NOBODY uses totally unrelated random strong pads for everything.....

https://xkcd.com/936/

After considerable effort and essentially forcing Lastpass on her, my mother has finally graduated from using her own name with letters changed to numbers as bleeding-edge banking-level security.

ApK · 05-24-2016, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Nope, for that you need to pull out the (government-issue) electron microscope.

You mean magnetic force microscope. I think I'm good on that front.

wodin · 05-24-2016, 01:29 PM

I was reading

on my desktop computer last evening just before sunset, with my security camera system displayed on the second monitor. I glanced over and saw someone trespassing in my carport.

Alarmed, I jumped up and ran out the front door into the carport. I found I teen aged boy with his head in my extra refrigerator and an unopened soft drink in his hand.

I yelled "What are you doing in my refrigerator?" and the discussion deteriorated from there.

He replied "I just wanted a drink."

Of all the brilliant things I could have said, I replied "Give that back, and get out of here!"

Some of things I could have said were "I have you on video and If I see you here again I'll send it to the police." or "If you want a drink, had you asked I'd have given you one." or "Buy your own." or "I know where you live". But did I think of any of those? Of course not, I just said "Give that back, and get out of here!"

In retrospect,

I think he was probably looking for beer, but since no one in my household drinks alcohol, we don't have any.

And if we did we certainly wouldn't keep it in an unlocked refrigerator that's outside.

Soooo. I put a lock on the refer, with the key hanging on a peg just inside the front door. What a PITA!

ApK · 05-24-2016, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

Some of things I could have said were "I have you on video and If I see you here again I'll send it to the police." or "If you want a drink, had you asked I'd have given you one." or "Buy your own." or "I know where you live". But did I think of any of those? Of course not, I just said "Give that back, and get out of here!"

I hate when that happens. I've euphemistically decided to say I have a writer's wit. That is, I can think of a great response, right in time to write it in a story weeks later.....

Rumpelteazer · 05-24-2016, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsunami

Old kitchens... don't get me started

I'm glad I don't have to cook at my father's house any more. It has a kitchen that was installed when it was modern to have the ventilation built into the wall, making it look like a cupboard. It swings out when you open the door. (Opened at the bottom, hinged at the top.) So, it looks like this:

Closed

Code:

||
||       
||       0
||       |
---------|

(That's me, at a the stove

)

Code:

Open:

|___
|    \   
|     \  0
|        |
---------|

Frack that.... it's in my line of sight!

"But we never have any problems", my parents would say.

No, that's because you're 1.60m and 1.69 tall, and I'm 1.80m; and that's just enough to raise my eyesight above the lower edge of that door

LOL. The upper kitchen cabinets aren't that low, luckily. However, they are low enough for my father, my sister and I to walk into the doors when they are open. My mother is short and walks underneath them. However, she's got the annoying tendency to start emptying the dishwasher and putting away stuff when one of us is preparing lunch or making a snack. Several times a week you can hear cursing coming from the kitchen when one of us bumps our head against the door of a cabinet when turning around to get something or leave the kitchen.

badgoodDeb · 05-27-2016, 04:12 PM

Can this PC be saved?

Or shall I just chuck it through my window, rather than returning it to my neighbor? This is the one what I'm trying to upgrade for my neighbor (who does my dog-sitting). I wanted to put Windows 10 on it, while that's still free.

Instead, we can't even open a "Compose email" window in IE (yahoo mail) if *any* other tab is open. I propose she use it for a kitty litter box, rather than trying to upgrade it to anything. She herself is computer illiterate enough that, when the compose mail window doesn't open, she clicks again. So we wind up with 5 or 6 processes trying to open, when in fact, even the FIRST cannot manage to start itself. This machine is a piece of s**t. And I don't believe in swearing. We finally got a message in the lower right, from Yahoo mail, about "this is taking too long; wanna revert to Basic Mail?". I clicked that. 5 minutes later, the screen changed to that. By then, she had given up and asked to use my mac, for the email and resume she wanted to submit. (We did that, but I cringed lest she click on something strange and, in her un-computer-acy, expose my mac to viruses.)

It is a barely 2 year old AMD E1-2500 Radeon 1.4 GHz with 4G Ram. 64 bit OS currently running (managed to upgrade to?) 8.1 w Bing. HP Pavilion. Will throwing memory at it save anything, or is a doorstop too good for this thing?

Or is all this related to internet problems? This was at my house; not hers. Her internet doesn't work at all. Mine only gets 15Mps on a good day, but it never hangs up like that.

She hasn't actually *asked* me to fix this thing. She never uses it or even turns it on. But she's looking for a new job, and I'm getting tired of her using my mac for that. I can keep her PC set up wired to my internet (not wifi), if we can only get some decent speed out of the horrible thing.

Any ideas? Help Mr Wizard!!

ApK · 05-27-2016, 04:20 PM

Spec-wise, it's sounds like it should be reasonable for her purposes.

IIRC, there is a way (but someone else will have to spell out how) to take advantage of the free W10 deal, but do a total wipe and reformat of the machine and install from scratch.

If so, that's what I'd try, just before recycling it.

I wouldn't put any non-recoverable money into it.

eschwartz · 05-27-2016, 04:33 PM

My mother just discovered why AT&T U-Verse keeps on trying to charge her more money than they were supposed to.

It would appear that the person who originally signed her up was a big fat liar... when she asked how much it would cost not including tax and including extra costs, fees, clarifying first-time discounts etc. the AT&T person very specifically denied what turned out to be a $10 price hike. Also, it turns out she's been getting billed for renting (

) the supplied router.

Now she knows why every couple months they cut off service and charge late fees even though she set up automatic billing etc. She's pretty disgusted.

And just for kicks, the manager she was forwarded to, randomly decided to hang up on her. Great customer service!

ApK · 05-27-2016, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eschwartz

My mother just discovered why AT&T U-Verse keeps on trying to charge her more money than they were supposed to.

It would appear that the person who originally signed her up was a big fat liar... when she asked how much it would cost not including tax and including extra costs, fees, clarifying first-time discounts etc. the AT&T person very specifically denied what turned out to be a $10 price hike. Also, it turns out she's been getting billed for renting (

) the supplied router.

Now she knows why every couple months they cut off service and charge late fees even though she set up automatic billing etc. She's pretty disgusted.

And just for kicks, the manager she was forwarded to, randomly decided to hang up on her. Great customer service!

Tell me about it. Business as usual for some companies. Comcast is so bad like that I just expect overcharges and misinformation anytime I'm involved in an order.
Here's a tip that works well with Comcast, maybe it'll work for AT&T too: Use the customer service chat feature for billing disputes. Maybe it's because they know there is a chat transcript you can forward to the press and the board of utilities, but they always seem to quickly and simply resolve disputes with a minimum of explanation and delay when I do it by chat.

On a somewhat related note, I just cancelled my Verizon landline and DSL service. So one less big telecom outfit I need to deal with.

Cinisajoy · 05-27-2016, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

Can this PC be saved?

Or shall I just chuck it through my window, rather than returning it to my neighbor? This is the one what I'm trying to upgrade for my neighbor (who does my dog-sitting). I wanted to put Windows 10 on it, while that's still free.

Instead, we can't even open a "Compose email" window in IE (yahoo mail) if *any* other tab is open. I propose she use it for a kitty litter box, rather than trying to upgrade it to anything. She herself is computer illiterate enough that, when the compose mail window doesn't open, she clicks again. So we wind up with 5 or 6 processes trying to open, when in fact, even the FIRST cannot manage to start itself. This machine is a piece of s**t. And I don't believe in swearing. We finally got a message in the lower right, from Yahoo mail, about "this is taking too long; wanna revert to Basic Mail?". I clicked that. 5 minutes later, the screen changed to that. By then, she had given up and asked to use my mac, for the email and resume she wanted to submit. (We did that, but I cringed lest she click on something strange and, in her un-computer-acy, expose my mac to viruses.)

It is a barely 2 year old AMD E1-2500 Radeon 1.4 GHz with 4G Ram. 64 bit OS currently running (managed to upgrade to?) 8.1 w Bing. HP Pavilion. Will throwing memory at it save anything, or is a doorstop too good for this thing?

Or is all this related to internet problems? This was at my house; not hers. Her internet doesn't work at all. Mine only gets 15Mps on a good day, but it never hangs up like that.

She hasn't actually *asked* me to fix this thing. She never uses it or even turns it on. But she's looking for a new job, and I'm getting tired of her using my mac for that. I can keep her PC set up wired to my internet (not wifi), if we can only get some decent speed out of the horrible thing.

Any ideas? Help Mr Wizard!!

Deb,
Yahoo mail and IE do not always play well together.
Just put the darn thing on basic email and you are golden.

Blossom · 05-27-2016, 04:57 PM

Deb, it sounds like an IE issue. IE hasn't been a good browser in a very long time. Try Chrome or Firefox. Chrome is very light on resources. IE has always been slow as molasses.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

Blossom · 05-27-2016, 05:07 PM

I paid 5 years to Charter for a rental I did not have. The tech who installed it stole it and gave me a basic modem not a wireless gateway. Never got any of it back.

Charter Spectrum here in St Louis has been quite great. I just got off the bundle price but keeping it. 100mbps is awesome. No hidden fees not even tax. I was paying $50 a month now $70 but for the speed and no caps it's well worth it.

Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

eschwartz · 05-27-2016, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Tell me about it. Business as usual for some companies. Comcast is so bad like that I just expect overcharges and misinformation anytime I'm involved in an order.
Here's a tip that works well with Comcast, maybe it'll work for AT&T too: Use the customer service chat feature for billing disputes. Maybe it's because they know there is a chat transcript you can forward to the press and the board of utilities, but they always seem to quickly and simply resolve disputes with a minimum of explanation and delay when I do it by chat.

On a somewhat related note, I just cancelled my Verizon landline and DSL service. So one less big telecom outfit I need to deal with.

Comcast sux: http://arstechnica.com/business/2016...-for-the-hype/

Hoping our address will be eligible for Google Fiber sometime in the not-too-terribly-distant future.
If not, well, I guess there is always complaining to the FCC.

DMcCunney · 05-27-2016, 06:46 PM

I have to count myself lucky in service providers.

My first broadband was DSL from BellAtlantic, which turned into Verizon. Cable modem service wasn't available where I was, so DSL or a dish were my options. I'm in NYC, and a telco central office was in walking distance, so DSL was quite possible.

Getting it was an exercise in frustration. BA screwed up everything that could be screwed up, beginning with mis-entering the credit card number I provided. It took three months from placement of order to working service, and required to me to stay on hold for an hour on a slow afternoon at the office to finally get through to Customer Care and begin the process of getting mistakes corrected. My boss came into the computer room after I was done and said "I heard you on the phone with BellAtlantic. I'm sorry you had to go through that!" I replied "Larry, it's okay. BA are idiots and have their collective head up their butt. I go through this nonsense for the company, too, but you pay me for it! When I have to do it for free on my own time it gets wearing." (I was my shop's system, network, and telecom admin. I was very happy when the parent company got a telecom manager, and dealing with the telco became his problem.)

I'm a TimeWarner cable customer. TWC remembered I'd inquired about broadband, and when cable modem service became available where I was they dropped me a note. I could get cable modem internet service three times faster than my DSL line for the same proce, and I could pick up a self-install kit for $99 across the street from my office. Sold! Got the kit, did the setup, and in 15 minutes I was connected. I also didn't have to authenticate. BA's DSL used PPPoE, and required me to log in for things to work. TWC's setup assumed that I was a legitimate customer because I was connecting to them.

I actually kept the DSL line for a while as a high-speed backup, and for a period I had two ISPs through two different network interfaces. This mightily confused the software firewall I ran, which appeared to decide the two ISP's email servers were trying to talk to each other through my machine and blocked both. A new firewall cured the issues. I dropped the DSL line to save money when cable modem service proved reliable.

My TWC Internet bandwidth has been steadily increased at no change in my rates. TWC is fending off VZ. Back when it was competing with DSL. Now it's competing with FIOS. The most recent change was an upgrade from 20mbps Turbo service to 100mbps, again at no price increase. It required a new cable modem, but TWC supplied it. As it happens, FIOS is not available where I am, and I don't expect it to be, but TWC is still playing defense against VZ. I can actually get 300mbps service if I feel like paying for it, but don't do things like Netflix, and don't need it.

The last step, back in 2008, was taking TWC up on their triple-play offer and adding VOIP to my existing cable and Internet service. I'd held off because I effectively don't make LD calls, but VZ's local loop service charge crept up to just above TWC's VOIP charge, and I took the offer. (Immediately after, I found myself in a project that required living on the phone LD for the better part of a month.

)

NYC is TWC corporate HQ, and TWC senior executives rely on the service, so problems tend to get fixed fast.

The worry a while back was an offer from Comcast to buy TWC. I was well aware of Comcast's reputation for non-existent service. An assortment of friends are techs and things like network engineers as their day job. They provide detailed technical chapter and verse on how Comcast sucks, but are stuck with it because there aren't viable alternatives where they are.

Fortunately, Comcast withdrew the buy offer. Problems getting regulatory approval were a cited reason, and their dismal service reputation was a factor in issues on getting regulatory approval. I smiled broadly at that, though I didn't expect it actually taught then anything.

I've actually been pleased with TWC service, but location is a factor. TW provides cable service to large patches of the country, and TW customers elsewhere have made the same sort of noises about TW that my contacts make about Comcast.
______
Dennis

05-27-2016, 04:12 PM	#27817
badgoodDeb Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,553 Karma: 64462893 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Harrisburg outskirts Device: Palms, K1-4s, iPads, iPhones, KV, KO1	Can this PC be saved? Or shall I just chuck it through my window, rather than returning it to my neighbor? This is the one what I'm trying to upgrade for my neighbor (who does my dog-sitting). I wanted to put Windows 10 on it, while that's still free. Instead, we can't even open a "Compose email" window in IE (yahoo mail) if any other tab is open. I propose she use it for a kitty litter box, rather than trying to upgrade it to anything. She herself is computer illiterate enough that, when the compose mail window doesn't open, she clicks again. So we wind up with 5 or 6 processes trying to open, when in fact, even the FIRST cannot manage to start itself. This machine is a piece of s*t. And I don't believe in swearing. We finally got a message in the lower right, from Yahoo mail, about "this is taking too long; wanna revert to Basic Mail?". I clicked that. 5 minutes later, the screen changed to that. By then, she had given up and asked to use my mac, for the email and resume she wanted to submit. (We did that, but I cringed lest she click on something strange and, in her un-computer-acy, expose my mac to viruses.) It is a barely 2 year old AMD E1-2500 Radeon 1.4 GHz with 4G Ram. 64 bit OS currently running (managed to upgrade to?) 8.1 w Bing. HP Pavilion. Will throwing memory at it save anything, or is a doorstop too good for this thing? Or is all this related to internet problems? This was at my house; not hers. Her internet doesn't work at all. Mine only gets 15Mps on a good day, but it never hangs up like that. She hasn't actually asked* me to fix this thing. She never uses it or even turns it on. But she's looking for a new job, and I'm getting tired of her using my mac for that. I can keep her PC set up wired to my internet (not wifi), if we can only get some decent speed out of the horrible thing. Any ideas? Help Mr Wizard!! Last edited by badgoodDeb; 05-27-2016 at 04:14 PM.

05-27-2016, 04:33 PM	#27819
eschwartz Ex-Helpdesk Junkie Posts: 19,421 Karma: 85400180 Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Beaten Path, USA, Roundworld, This Side of Infinity Device: Kindle Touch fw5.3.7 (Wifi only)	My mother just discovered why AT&T U-Verse keeps on trying to charge her more money than they were supposed to. It would appear that the person who originally signed her up was a big fat liar... when she asked how much it would cost not including tax and including extra costs, fees, clarifying first-time discounts etc. the AT&T person very specifically denied what turned out to be a $10 price hike. Also, it turns out she's been getting billed for renting () the supplied router. Now she knows why every couple months they cut off service and charge late fees even though she set up automatic billing etc. She's pretty disgusted. And just for kicks, the manager she was forwarded to, randomly decided to hang up on her. Great customer service!

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05-24-2016, 10:50 AM	#27811
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	Luckily when my grandmother redid her kitchen, she made sure the cabinets were taller than standard. I think she was thinking of her grandchildren rather than her two girls. She was 5'4. All her grandchildren grew up to be 5'8 or taller. Her taller daughter is 5'2. At Katsunami, With all the dishes and pans and miscellaneous kitchen stuff, we built a bookcase style pantry that when our back door is open you can't see it. Though there is a side benefit, nothing can get shoved to the back of the cabinet. For those who are wondering, the lower shelves are designed to hold 60 cans. 3 cans deep, 10 across , 2 high. With about a half an inch clearance on top.Note: these are your standard 16 oz cans. Now the strange thing my grandmother did at one point was carpet the kitchen. Yes, I am in my grandmother's house.

05-24-2016, 01:29 PM	#27814
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	I was reading on my desktop computer last evening just before sunset, with my security camera system displayed on the second monitor. I glanced over and saw someone trespassing in my carport. Alarmed, I jumped up and ran out the front door into the carport. I found I teen aged boy with his head in my extra refrigerator and an unopened soft drink in his hand. I yelled "What are you doing in my refrigerator?" and the discussion deteriorated from there. He replied "I just wanted a drink." Of all the brilliant things I could have said, I replied "Give that back, and get out of here!" Some of things I could have said were "I have you on video and If I see you here again I'll send it to the police." or "If you want a drink, had you asked I'd have given you one." or "Buy your own." or "I know where you live". But did I think of any of those? Of course not, I just said "Give that back, and get out of here!" In retrospect, I think he was probably looking for beer, but since no one in my household drinks alcohol, we don't have any. And if we did we certainly wouldn't keep it in an unlocked refrigerator that's outside. Soooo. I put a lock on the refer, with the key hanging on a peg just inside the front door. What a PITA!

05-27-2016, 04:20 PM	#27818
ApK Award-Winning Participant Posts: 7,389 Karma: 68329346 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NJ, USA Device: Kindle	Spec-wise, it's sounds like it should be reasonable for her purposes. IIRC, there is a way (but someone else will have to spell out how) to take advantage of the free W10 deal, but do a total wipe and reformat of the machine and install from scratch. If so, that's what I'd try, just before recycling it. I wouldn't put any non-recoverable money into it.

05-27-2016, 04:57 PM	#27822
Blossom Treasure Seeker Posts: 18,708 Karma: 26026435 Join Date: Mar 2010 Device: Kobo HD Glo, Kindles, Kindle Fires, Andriod Devices	Deb, it sounds like an IE issue. IE hasn't been a good browser in a very long time. Try Chrome or Firefox. Chrome is very light on resources. IE has always been slow as molasses. Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

05-27-2016, 05:07 PM	#27823
Blossom Treasure Seeker Posts: 18,708 Karma: 26026435 Join Date: Mar 2010 Device: Kobo HD Glo, Kindles, Kindle Fires, Andriod Devices	I paid 5 years to Charter for a rental I did not have. The tech who installed it stole it and gave me a basic modem not a wireless gateway. Never got any of it back. Charter Spectrum here in St Louis has been quite great. I just got off the bundle price but keeping it. 100mbps is awesome. No hidden fees not even tax. I was paying $50 a month now $70 but for the speed and no caps it's well worth it. Sent from my XT1528 using Tapatalk

05-27-2016, 06:46 PM	#27825
DMcCunney New York Editor Posts: 6,384 Karma: 16540415 Join Date: Aug 2007 Device: PalmTX, Pocket eDGe, Alcatel Fierce 4, RCA Viking Pro 10, Nexus 7	I have to count myself lucky in service providers. My first broadband was DSL from BellAtlantic, which turned into Verizon. Cable modem service wasn't available where I was, so DSL or a dish were my options. I'm in NYC, and a telco central office was in walking distance, so DSL was quite possible. Getting it was an exercise in frustration. BA screwed up everything that could be screwed up, beginning with mis-entering the credit card number I provided. It took three months from placement of order to working service, and required to me to stay on hold for an hour on a slow afternoon at the office to finally get through to Customer Care and begin the process of getting mistakes corrected. My boss came into the computer room after I was done and said "I heard you on the phone with BellAtlantic. I'm sorry you had to go through that!" I replied "Larry, it's okay. BA are idiots and have their collective head up their butt. I go through this nonsense for the company, too, but you pay me for it! When I have to do it for free on my own time it gets wearing." (I was my shop's system, network, and telecom admin. I was very happy when the parent company got a telecom manager, and dealing with the telco became his problem.) I'm a TimeWarner cable customer. TWC remembered I'd inquired about broadband, and when cable modem service became available where I was they dropped me a note. I could get cable modem internet service three times faster than my DSL line for the same proce, and I could pick up a self-install kit for $99 across the street from my office. Sold! Got the kit, did the setup, and in 15 minutes I was connected. I also didn't have to authenticate. BA's DSL used PPPoE, and required me to log in for things to work. TWC's setup assumed that I was a legitimate customer because I was connecting to them. I actually kept the DSL line for a while as a high-speed backup, and for a period I had two ISPs through two different network interfaces. This mightily confused the software firewall I ran, which appeared to decide the two ISP's email servers were trying to talk to each other through my machine and blocked both. A new firewall cured the issues. I dropped the DSL line to save money when cable modem service proved reliable. My TWC Internet bandwidth has been steadily increased at no change in my rates. TWC is fending off VZ. Back when it was competing with DSL. Now it's competing with FIOS. The most recent change was an upgrade from 20mbps Turbo service to 100mbps, again at no price increase. It required a new cable modem, but TWC supplied it. As it happens, FIOS is not available where I am, and I don't expect it to be, but TWC is still playing defense against VZ. I can actually get 300mbps service if I feel like paying for it, but don't do things like Netflix, and don't need it. The last step, back in 2008, was taking TWC up on their triple-play offer and adding VOIP to my existing cable and Internet service. I'd held off because I effectively don't make LD calls, but VZ's local loop service charge crept up to just above TWC's VOIP charge, and I took the offer. (Immediately after, I found myself in a project that required living on the phone LD for the better part of a month. ) NYC is TWC corporate HQ, and TWC senior executives rely on the service, so problems tend to get fixed fast. The worry a while back was an offer from Comcast to buy TWC. I was well aware of Comcast's reputation for non-existent service. An assortment of friends are techs and things like network engineers as their day job. They provide detailed technical chapter and verse on how Comcast sucks, but are stuck with it because there aren't viable alternatives where they are. Fortunately, Comcast withdrew the buy offer. Problems getting regulatory approval were a cited reason, and their dismal service reputation was a factor in issues on getting regulatory approval. I smiled broadly at that, though I didn't expect it actually taught then anything. I've actually been pleased with TWC service, but location is a factor. TW provides cable service to large patches of the country, and TW customers elsewhere have made the same sort of noises about TW that my contacts make about Comcast. ______ Dennis