What are the pitfalls of allowing someone translation rights?

Graham · 05-07-2016, 11:40 AM

I've just had the editor of a well-established overseas fanzine contact me having seen a piece of my flash fiction that has just been published online (with non-exclusive rights).

He'd like to translate the story for use in the next issue of his magazine.

There's no payment involved, and this is just a small piece of flash fiction, and in principle I'm happy enough for him to have the story. However, it got me thinking about the pitfalls of this sort of thing.

Have writers here had experience of this?

My thoughts at the moment are that I can grant him the non-exclusive electronic rights to use the story, in translation, purely for this one magazine, however because it's printed in a 140-page pdf and remains archived online, I'd also have to grant him archival rights in perpetuity.

Is the main issue then, that if someone wanted the exclusive rights to reprint the story in the future I couldn't give them due to this foreign language version being archived online?

Are there other pitfalls here that I've not considered?

Graham

Cinisajoy · 05-07-2016, 12:20 PM

How do you feel about the story?
Double check the fine print to see who owns the copyright to the story.
If it is a story you won't be using again, I say go for it. The exposure could be very valuable.

Graham · 05-07-2016, 01:35 PM

Thanks Cinisajoy. Yes, for this story I think I'll let them use it, but I thought the situation could be worth discussing more generally here.

Presumably if an editor is putting things together for an anthology, they wouldn't be concerned if the story was still in print in a different language?

Graham

HarryT · 05-07-2016, 05:45 PM

One pitfall I can think of is that you may have no way of knowing how good a translator this person is. They could turn your finely-crafted story into garbage and harm your reputation as an author.

crich70 · 05-07-2016, 11:47 PM

Also do they make any $ off of the actual pdf magazines? If so what is their circulation I would think is something to consider. I mean if they sell copies at $5.00 a pop and sell 5k copies that means they earn around $25,000.00 from the sale. IF they do make that kind of money off it then why don't they at least pay for submissions? In theory they could be making money from it for yrs and you wouldn't see a dime of it. Of course I don't know if they do make any money off of the magazine but if they do then by not sharing with you the author they are raking in the funds and you aren't getting anything from it in that regard. Just a thought.

Graham · 05-08-2016, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

One pitfall I can think of is that you may have no way of knowing how good a translator this person is. They could turn your finely-crafted story into garbage and harm your reputation as an author.

True. Given the time frame this one would be a gamble, but it's certainly something to consider in the future. If you had the resources, I guess you'd want to have advance sight of the translation and some independent dual-language beta readers to call upon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crich70

Also do they make any $ off of the actual pdf magazines?

In this case, the magazine is a free download and it doesn't appear to be funded by paid subscribers. It's got a good pedigree and has produced over a hundred issues, the latest of which has 140 well-formatted, full colour pages.

That's certainly a consideration going forward, though.

Graham

beachwanderer · 05-10-2016, 06:24 AM

If you curb his rights for publication this won't bother you too much in this case but one could think about the possiblity of cross-licencing (so that you can use the translation in turn for something else).

I guess HarryT knows more about the international aspect from the anglo-american angle but eg. under german law the translator gains his own copyright for the wording of the translation. So his unique translation automatically contains two rights, your right for the content/story and his for the translated wording.

darryl · 05-10-2016, 06:59 AM

Who owns the copyright in the translated version is something that should be spelled out. Probably you should be granting a non-exclusive licence to translate the work and publish it in the single magazine. It should provide that copyright in the translated version is vested in you. As it seems the magazine remains indefinitely available for free download you could protect future exclusive rights by providing that you can terminate the licence in which case they must remove the story from the copies available for download. This of course is a little harsh. If you do not do this you should ensure that it is dealt with properly in future licence agreements. For example, you could later grant exclusive rights subject to the of XXXX to distribute the story in the magazine. You can cover yourself legally but the availability of of a free version available, even in another language, may well impact whether anyone is interested in licensing and the price they are prepared to pay.

You really should get proper legal advice on the matter, including the drafting of the agreement. No doubt like others posting in this thread I profess no expertise and take no responsibility.

Good luck.

HarryT · 05-10-2016, 07:22 AM

darryl's given you some good advice there. Yes, I completely agree that you should mandate that you own the rights to the translated work.

Freeshadow · 05-10-2016, 10:41 PM

Graham, what is the target language? (just curious because I'm a translator too)

Graham · 05-11-2016, 05:33 AM

Excellent advice, thanks darryl and beachwanderer. This is just a flash fiction story, so the impact is small, but it's been a useful test case as hopefully this will come up more in the future with larger works.

Freeshadow, it's Portuguese.

Graham

Freeshadow · 05-11-2016, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

Freeshadow, it's Portuguese.

Well, clearly NOT my pool to swim in. (Polish - German)

If things go wrong you may end up with a Spanish translation

crich70 · 05-21-2016, 03:40 AM

There is also the issue I would think of how long a copyright goes from one country to another. Though that would be more a concern for your heirs than yourself. Some countries are life + 50 and some life +70 and i imagine some are at different lengths. So your heirs might get some $ due to the copyright in some countries longer than in others. Plus if you are dissatisfied with the translation and want to have a new one done you would have some trouble if you don't own the original translation I would think.

Froide · 05-25-2016, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darryl

Who owns the copyright in the translated version is something that should be spelled out. Probably you should be granting a non-exclusive licence to translate the work and publish it in the single magazine. It should provide that copyright in the translated version is vested in you. As it seems the magazine remains indefinitely available for free download you could protect future exclusive rights by providing that you can terminate the licence in which case they must remove the story from the copies available for download. This of course is a little harsh. If you do not do this you should ensure that it is dealt with properly in future licence agreements. For example, you could later grant exclusive rights subject to the of XXXX to distribute the story in the magazine. You can cover yourself legally but the availability of of a free version available, even in another language, may well impact whether anyone is interested in licensing and the price they are prepared to pay.

You really should get proper legal advice on the matter, including the drafting of the agreement. No doubt like others posting in this thread I profess no expertise and take no responsibility.

Good luck.

GRAHAM: Good questions.

DARRYL: Good advice. Especially: "You really should get proper legal advice on the matter, including the drafting of the agreement."

gmw · 05-28-2016, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham

[...] This is just a flash fiction story, so the impact is small, but it's been a useful test case as hopefully this will come up more in the future with larger works. [...]

Interesting discussion. But I think you've already worked out the relative importance of this instance. For a short work like this, and having also satisfied yourself the publisher is credible, I think the chance of exposure far outweighs the risks. Making too much fuss could well have you left out as being too hard to get on with. There are times, like this one I suspect, where it doesn't pay to get buried too deep in the minutia.

05-07-2016, 11:40 AM	#1
Graham Wizard Posts: 2,742 Karma: 32912427 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Yorkshire, UK Device: Kobo H20, Pixel 2, Samsung Chromebook Plus	What are the pitfalls of allowing someone translation rights? I've just had the editor of a well-established overseas fanzine contact me having seen a piece of my flash fiction that has just been published online (with non-exclusive rights). He'd like to translate the story for use in the next issue of his magazine. There's no payment involved, and this is just a small piece of flash fiction, and in principle I'm happy enough for him to have the story. However, it got me thinking about the pitfalls of this sort of thing. Have writers here had experience of this? My thoughts at the moment are that I can grant him the non-exclusive electronic rights to use the story, in translation, purely for this one magazine, however because it's printed in a 140-page pdf and remains archived online, I'd also have to grant him archival rights in perpetuity. Is the main issue then, that if someone wanted the exclusive rights to reprint the story in the future I couldn't give them due to this foreign language version being archived online? Are there other pitfalls here that I've not considered? Graham

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05-07-2016, 12:20 PM	#2
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	How do you feel about the story? Double check the fine print to see who owns the copyright to the story. If it is a story you won't be using again, I say go for it. The exposure could be very valuable.

05-07-2016, 01:35 PM	#3
Graham Wizard Posts: 2,742 Karma: 32912427 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Yorkshire, UK Device: Kobo H20, Pixel 2, Samsung Chromebook Plus	Thanks Cinisajoy. Yes, for this story I think I'll let them use it, but I thought the situation could be worth discussing more generally here. Presumably if an editor is putting things together for an anthology, they wouldn't be concerned if the story was still in print in a different language? Graham

05-07-2016, 05:45 PM	#4
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	One pitfall I can think of is that you may have no way of knowing how good a translator this person is. They could turn your finely-crafted story into garbage and harm your reputation as an author.

05-07-2016, 11:47 PM	#5
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,310 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	Also do they make any $ off of the actual pdf magazines? If so what is their circulation I would think is something to consider. I mean if they sell copies at $5.00 a pop and sell 5k copies that means they earn around $25,000.00 from the sale. IF they do make that kind of money off it then why don't they at least pay for submissions? In theory they could be making money from it for yrs and you wouldn't see a dime of it. Of course I don't know if they do make any money off of the magazine but if they do then by not sharing with you the author they are raking in the funds and you aren't getting anything from it in that regard. Just a thought.

05-10-2016, 06:24 AM	#7
beachwanderer - Posts: 2,602 Karma: 16748808 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: At the Baltic Sea Device: Some	If you curb his rights for publication this won't bother you too much in this case but one could think about the possiblity of cross-licencing (so that you can use the translation in turn for something else). I guess HarryT knows more about the international aspect from the anglo-american angle but eg. under german law the translator gains his own copyright for the wording of the translation. So his unique translation automatically contains two rights, your right for the content/story and his for the translated wording.

05-10-2016, 06:59 AM	#8
darryl Wizard Posts: 3,108 Karma: 60231510 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7	Who owns the copyright in the translated version is something that should be spelled out. Probably you should be granting a non-exclusive licence to translate the work and publish it in the single magazine. It should provide that copyright in the translated version is vested in you. As it seems the magazine remains indefinitely available for free download you could protect future exclusive rights by providing that you can terminate the licence in which case they must remove the story from the copies available for download. This of course is a little harsh. If you do not do this you should ensure that it is dealt with properly in future licence agreements. For example, you could later grant exclusive rights subject to the of XXXX to distribute the story in the magazine. You can cover yourself legally but the availability of of a free version available, even in another language, may well impact whether anyone is interested in licensing and the price they are prepared to pay. You really should get proper legal advice on the matter, including the drafting of the agreement. No doubt like others posting in this thread I profess no expertise and take no responsibility. Good luck.

05-10-2016, 07:22 AM	#9
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,560 Karma: 93980341 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	darryl's given you some good advice there. Yes, I completely agree that you should mandate that you own the rights to the translated work.

05-10-2016, 10:41 PM	#10
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,818 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	Graham, what is the target language? (just curious because I'm a translator too)

05-11-2016, 05:33 AM	#11
Graham Wizard Posts: 2,742 Karma: 32912427 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: North Yorkshire, UK Device: Kobo H20, Pixel 2, Samsung Chromebook Plus	Excellent advice, thanks darryl and beachwanderer. This is just a flash fiction story, so the impact is small, but it's been a useful test case as hopefully this will come up more in the future with larger works. Freeshadow, it's Portuguese. Graham

05-21-2016, 03:40 AM	#13
crich70 Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,310 Karma: 43993832 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Monroe Wisconsin Device: K3, Kindle Paperwhite, Calibre, and Mobipocket for Pc (netbook)	There is also the issue I would think of how long a copyright goes from one country to another. Though that would be more a concern for your heirs than yourself. Some countries are life + 50 and some life +70 and i imagine some are at different lengths. So your heirs might get some $ due to the copyright in some countries longer than in others. Plus if you are dissatisfied with the translation and want to have a new one done you would have some trouble if you don't own the original translation I would think.