Why e-books?

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

In the US the BPHs are not discounting back catalog titles or anything.

I've added some illustrative prices to my earlier post, which may perhaps be of some interest.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

In the US the BPHs are not discounting back catalog titles or anything.

They discount older books every day in the US.
I could have gotten 3 James Herriot books yesterday for $3.99. I didn't because I owned one and didn't like the third one.
I have picked up several biographies for $1.99.
A Tom Clancy for $1.99
2 Fix it and Forget it cookbooks for $1.99 each.
And numerous others while they were on sale.
Discounted every day no. Put on sale yes.
Of course there are no books I need immediately. So I can wait.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The paperback hasn't been released yet.

In the US, the paperback has been released at a lower price than the eBook.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

In the US, the paperback has been released at a lower price than the eBook.

No, it hasn't. Both the paperback and the eBook have been released at the same list price, $7.99. The publisher has chosen to discount the eBook on Amazon to $6.99 and Amazon has chosen to discount the paperback to $6.13 for now. Just as B&N has chosen to discount the paperback to $6.22 for online sales, but the publisher hasn't discounted the eBook there. The "problem" comes from two different pricing models (wholesale vs agency) and who gets to make the discounts.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Discounted every day no. Put on sale yes.

Right.
If you happen to find a book *they* want you to buy when you are looking to buy it, you get a temporary lower price. If it's not a book you want, it might as well cost nothing. Or a million bucks.

But if the book you want is not a book they're promoting, tough luck.

We're talking average prices here (what you can expect on any random day) so the price that matters is the "everyday low price" not the lowest ever. After all, if you talk lowest price ever, most KDP titles can go free up to 5 days a month. Which isn't helpful to the discussion.

Outliers and exceptions say nothing about the global trends.

People who *only* buy books on sale (or free) are a very small part of the market. So are the totally-price insensitive. Most people buy (or don't) when a specific book catches their eye and meets their personal pricing expectations. Every person is different...

...but the market as a whole evens out those variations to render its verdict.

Individual titles here and there may be bargains, temporarily or even (for their author's fans) permanently but they are counterbalanced by the titles with declining acceptance. This is particularly true for debut authors whose sales are being gutted by the higher prices. (A topic that is belatedly being "discovered" by tne BPH apologists.)

Right now, the US market as a whole is saying BPH ebooks as a class are overpriced. And it is saying so through the double digit decline going on in an otherwise growing market. And it is saying so through the ongoing boom in Indie Inc sales and the ongoing decline in BPH market share.

Anecdotes aren't trends.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

No, it hasn't. Both the paperback and the eBook have been released at the same list price, $7.99. The publisher has chosen to discount the eBook on Amazon to $6.99 and Amazon has chosen to discount the paperback to $6.13 for now. Just as B&N has chosen to discount the paperback to $6.22 for online sales, but the publisher hasn't discounted the eBook there. The "problem" comes from two different pricing models (wholesale vs agency) and who gets to make the discounts.

It costs more for the pBook than it does for the eBook. Even if it cost the exact same to make the eBook and the pBook, it cost to ship the pBook. So that then raises the cost. So there is no reason for the eBook to cost the same as the pBook. The eBook should always cost less because the cost is less to make the eBook.

The cheapest prices that I've found (so far without doing a Kobo trip to another country) are those two prices. So technically they were not released with the eBook being higher, but that's what we've ended up with.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

It costs more for the pBook than it does for the eBook. Even if it cost the exact same to make the eBook and the pBook, it cost to ship the pBook. So that then raises the cost. So there is no reason for the eBook to cost the same as the pBook. The eBook should always cost less because the cost is less to make the eBook.

You're making the false assumption that manufacturing costs are a significant proportion of the total cost of releasing a book. They are actually an extremely small component of the overall cost. Plus, of course, there's absolutely no reason to suppose that the publisher has to set the same profit margin on ebook and paper versions of the same book.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Right.
If you happen to find a book *they* want you to buy when you are looking to buy it, you get a temporary lower price. If it's not a book you want, it might as well cost nothing. Or a million bucks.

But if the book you want is not a book they're promoting, tough luck.

We're talking average prices here (what you can expect on any random day) so the price that matters is the "everyday low price" not the lowest ever. After all, if you talk lowest price ever, most KDP titles can go free up to 5 days a month. Which isn't helpful to the discussion.

Outliers and exceptions say nothing about the global trends.

People who *only* buy books on sale (or free) are a very small part of the market. So are the totally-price insensitive. Most people buy (or don't) when a specific book catches their eye and meets their personal pricing expectations. Every person is different...

...but the market as a whole evens out those variations to render its verdict.

Individual titles here and there may be bargains, temporarily or even (for their author's fans) permanently but they are counterbalanced by the titles with declining acceptance. This is particularly true for debut authors whose sales are being gutted by the higher prices. (A topic that is belatedly being "discovered" by tne BPH apologists.)

Right now, the US market as a whole is saying BPH ebooks as a class are overpriced. And it is saying so through the double digit decline going on in an otherwise growing market. And it is saying so through the ongoing boom in Indie Inc sales and the ongoing decline in BPH market share.

Anecdotes aren't trends.

My only argument with this statement is people that only do free or sales are very sensitive to prices. Also people that will only buy at a higher price are sensitive. Most people fall in the middle.
But then the only thing I willing pay a higher price for is Aunt Jemima's cornmeal.
Note: I collect cookbooks. I have walked away from many that would have been nice to have but I thought the price was too high.
I still remember one flea market guy that had the books marked 4 times what I was willing to pay. He told me I would eventually pay his price. I looked at those books every other weekend for 6 months. He came to realize at that point those books were not what he thought they were worth. He finally said, is your offer still available because there was no interest in that set of cookbooks?
I bought them at my price.
So yes, I have patience unless it is an absolute need.
Oh and it is 5 days out of 90 days not a month on the freebies.

[barryem]

I think the idea that the big 5 are trying to keep prices high so people will buy more paper books is an oversimplification. I suspect there's much more to it than that and that it's much more about simply keeping book prices high.

My guess is that publishers are afraid Amazon's discounting will eventually bring the normal price for new books down and they'll eventually find themselves getting their share of $10 books instead of $15 books.

I doubt they really care whether people buy ebooks or paper books as long as they pay high prices.

Actually that's probably an oversimplification as well. They probably would prefer people buy paper books because most of those have a limited lifetime and ebooks stay available forever and keep going down in price, competing with higher priced paper book.

But I think their real concern isn't ebooks vs paper, it's high prices vs low prices.

I think the publishers are playing a losing game but I'm not sure there's a winning game available to them. The sky is falling and they're reacting.

Of course no-one knows how this will all play out but I suspect that in a few years book prices will be lower and large publishers will be making less money per book. It's sure in their best interest to try to put that off as long as possible.

Barry

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by barryem

Actually that's probably an oversimplification as well. They probably would prefer people buy paper books because most of those have a limited lifetime and ebooks stay available forever and keep going down in price, competing with higher priced paper book.

I see no evidence to support the idea that ebooks keep going down in price. I'm paying much the same for ebooks now that I was paying 15 years ago. What makes you think that ebook prices are falling?

[GeoffR]

Perhaps the problem is that paper books are priced too low in the US?

Most of the ebooks I buy have a publisher list price about half that of the cheapest paper edition. They seem like good value to me.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by GeoffR

Perhaps the problem is that paper books are priced too low in the US?

Most of the ebooks I buy have a publisher list price about half that of the cheapest paper edition. They seem like good value to me.

pBook prices are going up in the US as more are being printed as those awful trade paperbacks and less as MMPB.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I see no evidence to support the idea that ebooks keep going down in price. I'm paying much the same for ebooks now that I was paying 15 years ago. What makes you think that ebook prices are falling?

Average prices are going down for sure.
Simply because people are buying more of the cheaper ebooks and less of the expensive ones. That much is documented.

Interestingly, average Indie ebook prices are slowly moving *up* in at least some genres. (Not sure about romance.)

Market forces at work again.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

pBook prices are going up in the US as more are being printed as those awful trade paperbacks and less as MMPB.

I get the impression that paperbacks are, on the whole, cheaper in the US than the UK. Typical UK price for a paperback is between £6 and £8 (about $9 to $12). What's a typical price in the US?

[Terisa de morgan]

If you excuse me, of course, this discussion is from an anglo POV. As an Spaniard who reads in English, the difference in time (and in price in same cases, shipping expenses) increase the ebook value. I agree with diapdealer (and I've told to a lot of people) that the book value are the words, not the format. So, yes, I can say that PB is more expensive than ebook, but, if I add concepts, in the end I will choose the ebook (and we don't talk about space or weight).