Why e-books?

[darryl]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What if you had no idea what the profit margin was? How would you make decisions on products where you have no idea how much of the price is profit? Does the simple act of finding out change the perceived value for you? If you were happy with paying $x.xx for a product, would finding out later on that Company Y didn't have a dime in its production make you suddenly unhappy with it?

Profit is not the relevant factor. Profits are great. More companies should make them. What I find interesting here is that it seems the Big 5 have largely been setting ebook prices at an inflated level so as to retard their growth in sales and divert customers to print books, even though they make less profit from the sale of a print book. The purpose apparently is to preserve their legacy business model. I hasten to add that this is only my interpretation of the situation, which is shared by some but certainly not all. If this is the case, then the Big 5 would prefer that you buy a paper book, even though they make less profit. But if you do opt to buy an ebook at the higher price, then they make a correspondingly greater profit. The only way they lose in such a scenario is if people don't buy the books at all. This was merely an observation. It is not the fact that they are making a profit or how much profit that is relevant. What is relevant is what I consider to be the artificial inflation of the price. It is the price to be looked at, not the profit. And the pricing of the alternate formats is prima facie an indication that the price has been inflated, at least imho. In this case there are other indications which seem to point to this also.

I strongly agree with you that the content is what is important, and we simply have the same content in different packages. It is at this point, how the packaging should affect the price, that we differ. As I understand it your view is that the price should be the same or higher for an ebook (as opposed to a print book) because it is the characteristics of an ebook that you value more, to the point where you are not interested in buying print books. I am also not interested in buying print books and I also highly value the characteristics of an ebook. However, my view is that the lower costs associated with an ebook mean that the price should be lower than for a print book, despite the fact that I value this format over and above the print format. In fact, it would seem to be logical that the costs associated with producing a particular format are the first things looked at when setting a price.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by darryl

Profit is not the relevant factor. Profits are great. More companies should make them. What I find interesting here is that it seems the Big 5 have largely been setting ebook prices at an inflated level so as to retard their growth in sales and divert customers to print books, even though they make less profit from the sale of a print book. The purpose apparently is to preserve their legacy business model. I hasten to add that this is only my interpretation of the situation, which is shared by some but certainly not all. If this is the case, then the Big 5 would prefer that you buy a paper book, even though they make less profit. But if you do opt to buy an ebook at the higher price, then they make a correspondingly greater profit. The only way they lose in such a scenario is if people don't buy the books at all. This was merely an observation. It is not the fact that they are making a profit or how much profit that is relevant. What is relevant is what I consider to be the artificial inflation of the price. It is the price to be looked at, not the profit. And the pricing of the alternate formats is prima facie an indication that the price has been inflated, at least imho. In this case there are other indications which seem to point to this also.

I strongly agree with you that the content is what is important, and we simply have the same content in different packages. It is at this point, how the packaging should affect the price, that we differ. As I understand it your view is that the price should be the same or higher for an ebook (as opposed to a print book) because it is the characteristics of an ebook that you value more, to the point where you are not interested in buying print books. I am also not interested in buying print books and I also highly value the characteristics of an ebook. However, my view is that the lower costs associated with an ebook mean that the price should be lower than for an ebook, despite the fact that I value this format over and above the print format. In fact, it would seem to be logical that the costs associated with producing a particular format are the first things looked at when setting a price.

Where is the proof that the Big 5 is inflating ebook prices so people will buy paper books?
Did they actually say this or are you making an assumption?
Or are people willingly paying their prices for ebooks?
Not only that but are you aware that the big 5 do discount their ebooks once in a while.
Dan Brown's Inferno was $1.99 on December 25, 2013.
It was 6 months old at the time and I picked up The Da Vinci Code free.
As of today it is 17.72 for hardback and 9.99 for ebook.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Where is the proof that the Big 5 is inflating ebook prices so people will buy paper books?
Did they actually say this or are you making an assumption?
Or are people willingly paying their prices for ebooks?
Not only that but are you aware that the big 5 do discount their ebooks once in a while.
Dan Brown's Inferno was $1.99 on December 25, 2013.
It was 6 months old at the time and I picked up The Da Vinci Code free.
As of today it is 17.72 for hardback and 9.99 for ebook.

In my view the article I link to below sets things out nicely and is fairly typical of a view which is widely but not of course universally accepted. Though how else to account for the actions of the Big 5?

http://genedoucette.me/2016/02/the-c...hing-industry/

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by darryl

I strongly agree with you that the content is what is important, and we simply have the same content in different packages. It is at this point, how the packaging should affect the price, that we differ. As I understand it your view is that the price should be the same or higher for an ebook (as opposed to a print book) because it is the characteristics of an ebook that you value more, to the point where you are not interested in buying print books.

Not quite. It's not that I think the price SHOULD be the same or higher. I'm perfectly happy that the price of an ebook is typically less then its physical counterpart. Precisely because they are the same product in different packages (in my opinion), I feel quite lucky to realize any savings when buying the version I personally value more. If they wanted to sell them for much, much less, I wouldn't complain. I just don't feel that I'm entitled to them being much, much cheaper. I want them more than their physical counterparts, after all.

Originally Posted by darryl

I am also not interested in buying print books and I also highly value the characteristics of an ebook. However, my view is that the lower costs associated with an ebook mean that the price should be lower than for a print book, despite the fact that I value this format over and above the print format. In fact, it would seem to be logical that the costs associated with producing a particular format are the first things looked at when setting a price.

As a consumer, production costs (much like profits) are not my concern. The world is full of high-priced byproducts that cost very little to produce. I've never known those producers to pass their cost-savings on to me in the past, so I have no expectation that ebooks producers would do so either. Things don't typically get cheaper because production costs go down.

[HarryT]

EBooks seem to be excellent value for money to me. I typically pay somewhere in the region of £4-5 (about $6-9) for a BPH ebook, and it gives me anything from about 3 to 10+ hours of reading pleasure. As entertainment costs go, that seems like good value. It's about the same as I'd pay for a sandwich and a cup of tea in a typical cafe, and I place far higher value on the book than on the sandwich.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by HarryT

As entertainment costs go, that seems like good value. It's about the same as I'd pay for a sandwich and a cup of tea in a typical cafe, and I place far higher value on the book than on the sandwich.

Same here. Though my new release ebooks are typically more in the range of a dinner at a fair-to-middling restaurant, I still place more value on the ebook that provides 3-10+ hours of reading pleasure than I do on dinner out.

[darryl]

@DiapDealer and Harry. Fair enough. It all comes down to our individual perceptions of value. My perception is that many Big 5 ebooks are not good value at the prices that are set, so I choose not to buy at those prices. Your perception is that those books are good value at those prices, and so you do purchase them. Both of our choices are rational ones based on our respective perceptions of value, right or wrong.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

EBooks seem to be excellent value for money to me. I typically pay somewhere in the region of £4-5 (about $6-9) for a BPH ebook, and it gives me anything from about 3 to 10+ hours of reading pleasure. As entertainment costs go, that seems like good value. It's about the same as I'd pay for a sandwich and a cup of tea in a typical cafe, and I place far higher value on the book than on the sandwich.

It has been reported that UK BPH titles are competitively priced, unlike their US counterparts. Your prices back that up: your quoted prices of US$6-9 would find little resistance on this side of the pond where their prices typically run $11-13 and higher. A 50% premium on BPH authors can be tolerated but a 200-300% higher price is a lot harder to swallow.

Speaking in generalities has its uses but sometimes you have to be more specific to appreciate an issue.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by darryl

@DiapDealer and Harry. Fair enough. It all comes down to our individual perceptions of value. My perception is that many Big 5 ebooks are not good value at the prices that are set, so I choose not to buy at those prices. Your perception is that those books are good value at those prices, and so you do purchase them. Both of our choices are rational ones based on our respective perceptions of value, right or wrong.

Very true, and that is of course the important thing: that we each make the choice that's right for us.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by darryl

In my view the article I link to below sets things out nicely and is fairly typical of a view which is widely but not of course universally accepted. Though how else to account for the actions of the Big 5?

http://genedoucette.me/2016/02/the-c...hing-industry/

Thank you for the very nice article on what ONE independent author thinks that the Big 5 is doing.
Now can you find an article from one of the BIG 5 saying that they are pricing so people will buy hardbacks.

I think the reason all that "inflating" prices started was because of Amazon payouts.
We do not know what percentage the big 5 gets off the sale of ebooks.
We do know that self and small publishers get 70% less a small delivery fee for books priced between $2.99 & $9.99. They get 35% for books priced under $2.99 or over $9.99.

I have never heard any readers complain that ebooks were inflated.
The only ones I have ever heard complain were independent authors that generally were not making much anyway. But it is so much easier to blame someone else's pricing for your misfortune.
Or they blame the bigger sellers because no one can find their book.
Hey, if one just puts a book out with no thought to cover art, editing or anything else then yes your book will sink to the bottom like a stone.
Ok rant over.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It has been reported that UK BPH titles are competitively priced, unlike their US counterparts. Your prices back that up: your quoted prices of US$6-9 would find little resistance on this side of the pond where their prices typically run $11-13 and higher. A 50% premium on BPH authors can be tolerated but a 200-300% higher price is a lot harder to swallow.

I should stress that my £4-5 price bracket is typical for "back catalogue" books (which are what I mostly buy). New releases are of course more expensive. I wait to buy my ebooks until the price falls, which generally happens with the release of the MMPB edition.

My most recent ebook purchases have been:

"The Wings of the Sphinx", by Andrea Camilleri (Picador): £4.29
"The Three-Body Problem", by Cixin Liu (Head of Zeus): £0.99 (Kindle Daily Deal)
"All You Zombies (and other stories)" by Robert Heinlein (Amazon): £3.60
"Jamaica Inn", by Daphne Du Maurier (Virago): £0.99 (Kindle Daily Deal)
"Watership Down", by Richard Adams (Oneworld): £0.99 (Kindle Daily Deal)
"War of the Gods", by Poul Anderson (SF Gateway): £4.99
"The Twisted Sword", by Winston Graham (Pan): £3.59
"Fools Die on Friday", by Erle Stanley Gardner (The Murder Room): £4.99

So, as you see, nothing over £5, and some great Kindle Daily Deals, too.

(This list is ignoring all the freebies)

[Conan46]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

It has been reported that UK BPH titles are competitively priced, unlike their US counterparts. Your prices back that up: your quoted prices of US$6-9 would find little resistance on this side of the pond where their prices typically run $11-13 and higher. A 50% premium on BPH authors can be tolerated but a 200-300% higher price is a lot harder to swallow.

Speaking in generalities has its uses but sometimes you have to be more specific to appreciate an issue.

It is starting to remind me of the prescription drug price situation where everyone has reasonable prices except in the US. Back when Amazon had the NYT best sellers at $9.99 that seemed a fair price to me, older titles were considerably less and I bought lots of ebooks back then. Different story today where NYT best sellers are up to a third more in price at $15.99 which is the point at which I balk at the price of a book I will read just one time.
http://www.amazon.com/National-Bests...rd_i=154606011
Amazon has helped to mitigate this nonsense pricing by publishing Independent authors whose books are often $5.99 or less.
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-K...rd_i=154606011
I get most of my ebooks through Overdrive and supplement those with audio books from Overdrive. So the big publishers are not getting anything from me, except whatever they make through Overdrive from my participating libraries. That gives me plenty of books with very little cost these days.
I know $15.99 is an acceptable price for some, but for me that is a month's subscription to HBO, or Spotify, or more than a subscription to Netflix or Hulu. It is about entertainment value and all the options available.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I should stress that my £4-5 price bracket is typical for "back catalogue" books (which are what I mostly buy). New releases are of course more expensive. I wait to buy my ebooks until the price falls, which generally happens with the release of the MMPB edition.

In the US the BPHs are not discounting back catalog titles or anything.

[JSWolf]

Here is an eBook that's just come out today and it is priced higher than the paperback version in both the US and the UK.

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Federatio...ve+by+the+code
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rise-Federat...ve+by+the+code

The best price that I've found is at Kobo in India. Even with an out of country credit card charge, it's still cheaper in India.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Here is an eBook that's just come out today and it is priced higher than the paperback version.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rise-Federat...ve+by+the+code

The paperback hasn't been released yet.