Did the Big 5 Shoot their own foot with demanding the return of Agency Pricing? - Page 3

Cinisajoy · 03-02-2016, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizla

Sorry, what does that mean?

I think he is trying to say Amazon gets 30% of the book's price.
Though since the agencies all have non-disclosure clauses I have no idea where he got that figure.

eschwartz · 03-02-2016, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizla

Sorry, what does that mean?

It means the publisher eats the cost of promotional discounting.

AnemicOak · 03-02-2016, 11:48 AM

The first time Agency came around the split was 70% to the publisher, 30% to the reseller. No idea if that holds true with the new, post DOJ lawsuit, contracts but I thought I read something in general terms about them being more dynamic and somewhat dependent on what the publisher prices the book at.

Rizla · 03-02-2016, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xianxia

Seriously?

Amazon sell prints book on wholesale. They can discount on them.

I search for Steven King and the first book that came up is:

The Bazaar of Bad Dreams: Stories Hardcover – November 3, 2015
by Stephen King (Author)

click on HARDCOVER

Beside that, there are lot of links from third parties sellers, probably used books but a lot cheaper.

Walmart listed the same book at the same price. So presumably they have the same deal as Amazon?

Edit: No longer available. The Google ref. gave the same price, but the cache listing shows it as 30 cents more. 30 cents more for stocking in a retail location actually would make it cheaper as there was no shipping charge.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

HarryT · 03-02-2016, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizla

Walmart listed the same book at the same price. So presumably they have the same deal as Amazon?

These discounted best-seller hardback deals seem to be widespread. Waterstones (the biggest chain of B&M booksellers in the UK) have the same discounts on hardbacks on their best-seller list that Amazon do.

Cinisajoy · 03-02-2016, 12:21 PM

I sometimes think that Amazon and Walmart both have the same "we must be the lowest price" clause in their contracts.
Not just books but on other items as well, they are usually the same price or within just a few cents of each other.

Rizla · 03-02-2016, 12:24 PM

The Walmart price was actually cheaper because there was no shipping. But does Walmart have the same deal as Amazon?

darryl · 03-02-2016, 12:50 PM

As I indicated in my post above, Agency has been a disaster for the Big 5. Or, more precisely, not Agency per se but the use of Agency to set higher prices. The only way the Big 5 stood to win is if their market share held steady. Of course it did not and was never intended to. But even the intended effect of driving some customers to buy print books instead of ebooks benefited Amazon and cut into publisher profits. But of course, it is likely that many customers simply spent their money instead on Indie/Self-Published ebooks, benefiting Amazon even more. These Indie/Self-Published books are in direct competition with Big 5 titles. I think the effect of the higher agency prices has demonstrated this clearly, and the Big 5 will essentially have to reduce their ebook prices. But they will now themselves bear the brunt of such reduced prices, rather than Amazon doing so. It is difficult to see why Amazon would now want to return to a wholesale model. And of course, if it did, it would be unlikely to resort to deep discounting without significant contribution by the Publishers. Even then, it would probably be better for them to simply adopt the recommended price and welcome the defectors to the world of Self-Published and Indie books. Why would Amazon now return to subsidies. It is going to get everything it wanted without doing so, including cheaper Big 5 ebooks, though no longer, of course, at Amazon's expense.

Rizla · 03-02-2016, 01:45 PM

Barnes and Noble also have the same book at $2 more than Amazon. When you factor in Amazon shipping B&N are cheaper or comparable and they are paying for the retail space.

shalym · 03-02-2016, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizla

Barnes and Noble also have the same book at $2 more than Amazon. When you factor in Amazon shipping B&N are cheaper or comparable and they are paying for the retail space.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what the significance is of this? Are you saying that prices are comparable at other stores for the same product? Why is that significant? I'm not sure why the conversation got pushed to paper books in the first place, because as far as I know, there was never any sort of "agency" agreement for those - paper books have always been sold on a wholesale basis by Amazon, haven't they? (and at other stores, as well)

Shari

Cinisajoy · 03-02-2016, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizla

Barnes and Noble also have the same book at $2 more than Amazon. When you factor in Amazon shipping B&N are cheaper or comparable and they are paying for the retail space.

But not everyone pays shipping and if you buy $25 worth of books the shipping is free.

Also how far is it to your nearest B&N?
For me, it would cost round trip at least $3 in gas.
So if the shipping is under $5, Amazon would be cheaper.

HarryT · 03-02-2016, 02:34 PM

Amazon have never, in my experience, been particularly cheap for paper books, with the exception of the heavily-discounted bestsellers (which I rarely buy). They're simply convenient.

AnemicOak · 03-02-2016, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Amazon have never, in my experience, been particularly cheap for paper books, with the exception of the heavily-discounted bestsellers (which I rarely buy). They're simply convenient.

Same here. The only reason I even started buying books from Amazon back in the day was that my local stores weren't stocking things I was looking for and while they were willing to order it that was yet another trip to pick it up. After striking out locally time and again it just became easier to buy from Amazon and they eventually became my first choice instead of second or third as it was more convenient. On a lot of titles though they were never really cheaper.

Rizla · 03-02-2016, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xianxia

Since Amazon can't discount ebook from the Big 5, they are doing it on hardcover and paperbacks to gain market share.

So this isn't true?

shalym · 03-02-2016, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizla

So this isn't true?

They are discounting paper books, but not any more than they ever did. I know I've said this before, but it bears repeating - I've been buying books for many years, and I don't believe I've ever paid full retail price...even when I bought the book on the day of release. They are ALWAYS marked down at least 10%.

Shari

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03-02-2016, 11:48 AM	#33
AnemicOak Bookaholic Posts: 14,391 Karma: 54969924 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Minnesota Device: iPad Mini 4, AuraHD, iPhone XR +	The first time Agency came around the split was 70% to the publisher, 30% to the reseller. No idea if that holds true with the new, post DOJ lawsuit, contracts but I thought I read something in general terms about them being more dynamic and somewhat dependent on what the publisher prices the book at.

03-02-2016, 12:21 PM	#36
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	I sometimes think that Amazon and Walmart both have the same "we must be the lowest price" clause in their contracts. Not just books but on other items as well, they are usually the same price or within just a few cents of each other.

03-02-2016, 12:24 PM	#37
Rizla Member Retired Posts: 3,183 Karma: 11721895 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Nook STR (rooted) & Sony T2	The Walmart price was actually cheaper because there was no shipping. But does Walmart have the same deal as Amazon?

03-02-2016, 12:50 PM	#38
darryl Wizard Posts: 3,108 Karma: 60231510 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7	As I indicated in my post above, Agency has been a disaster for the Big 5. Or, more precisely, not Agency per se but the use of Agency to set higher prices. The only way the Big 5 stood to win is if their market share held steady. Of course it did not and was never intended to. But even the intended effect of driving some customers to buy print books instead of ebooks benefited Amazon and cut into publisher profits. But of course, it is likely that many customers simply spent their money instead on Indie/Self-Published ebooks, benefiting Amazon even more. These Indie/Self-Published books are in direct competition with Big 5 titles. I think the effect of the higher agency prices has demonstrated this clearly, and the Big 5 will essentially have to reduce their ebook prices. But they will now themselves bear the brunt of such reduced prices, rather than Amazon doing so. It is difficult to see why Amazon would now want to return to a wholesale model. And of course, if it did, it would be unlikely to resort to deep discounting without significant contribution by the Publishers. Even then, it would probably be better for them to simply adopt the recommended price and welcome the defectors to the world of Self-Published and Indie books. Why would Amazon now return to subsidies. It is going to get everything it wanted without doing so, including cheaper Big 5 ebooks, though no longer, of course, at Amazon's expense.

03-02-2016, 01:45 PM	#39
Rizla Member Retired Posts: 3,183 Karma: 11721895 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Nook STR (rooted) & Sony T2	Barnes and Noble also have the same book at $2 more than Amazon. When you factor in Amazon shipping B&N are cheaper or comparable and they are paying for the retail space.

03-02-2016, 02:34 PM	#42
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Amazon have never, in my experience, been particularly cheap for paper books, with the exception of the heavily-discounted bestsellers (which I rarely buy). They're simply convenient.