Closure of Account - Access to digital content

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

I know they turned off one person's ability to return ebooks. She was returning at least 75% by her own admission.
{...}

A fair few people have had their ability to return ebooks removed (ie using Manage Your Content) but could still contact Amazon to request a return for cause. Source, comments on Amazon discussion boards.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

Do you mean that the small print states that digital access has a finite lifespan? I wasn't aware of that. Nor do I remember reading that they are allowed to reduce that finite time (by an unspecified amount) if I return (an unspecified amount of) goods which are entirely unrelated.

This is why it is prudent to maintain your own copy of such items, rather than be dependent upon any third party granting you access to them. I would personally never assume that any retailer is going to be around indefinitely; I've seen too many ebook stores go under.

[Purple Lady]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

What I meant by varying circumstances was specifically one woman had her digital returns blocked and another was told if she kept returning items her account would be closed.
So there are different alternatives. I said nothing about removing access to already owned items.
Look since we are honestly only buying licenses not the actual item, I am not sure how they should work.

Personal opinion if one is that worried about their digital items, they should either not buy from a place that might one day close or as it has been said many times, make backup copies.

If your account is closed, you lose access to your already owned items.

[rjcchan]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

Maybe I lack the imagination, so can you give some examples of 'varying circumstances' where it should be considered ethically and legally OK for any company to remove access to digital items already legally purchased?

You still have access to the items which you downloaded and can continue to use on your devices. They gave you what you paid for. There is no obligation to provide free cloud storage services. They only agreed to provide such services if you maintain an account with them. You no longer have an account therefore you cannot access their servers. They no longer want to do business with you, so you cannot have an account. Something along those lines perhaps?

What does your contract with them really require by them and by you in the use of your account? Did you breach that contract by excessive...perhaps fraudulent... returns? Something along those lines?

I am using "you" in the abstract here. I am not referring personally to the poster that I am responding to.

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by HarryT

This is why it is prudent to maintain your own copy of such items, rather than be dependent upon any third party granting you access to them. I would personally never assume that any retailer is going to be around indefinitely; I've seen too many ebook stores go under.

I'm not sure prudency is the issue in question here, it's ethics/legality.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

I'm not sure prudency is the issue in question here, it's ethics/legality.

Well, it is certainly legal for a store to go out of business...

I am pretty sure that it is also *legal* for Amazon to refuse to do business with someone and terminate their account.
The fact that ebooks are only re-downloadable via an account are an "unfortunate side effect".

[barryem]

I've read of users no longer being able to return books because they returned too many of them but I'd be surprised if Amazon would terminate anyone's account for returning too many books. Why would they? Turning off their ability to return books solves the problem for them and that user is likely to continue to buy books from them.

I find it especially hard to believe that for a small reason like that they'd deny a user access to the books they already paid for. That would just be bad business and would get them all kinds of negative publicity. I have heard of accounts being closed but the cases I've read about were for much more serious reasons.

Barry

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by badgoodDeb

Don't we really just "rent" these things? Or the right to use them for a period of time??

Not according to what Amazon has told me in the past.

"In terms of use, you have purchase[d] a copy of a book with us, and it is your copy. "

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by barryem

I have heard of accounts being closed but the cases I've read about were for much more serious reasons.

Indeed. But some accounts have been closed, and it's entirely at Amazon's whim that accounts are closed. It would be nice to have an official statement from Amazon about their policy on digital goods when they choose to close an account, thus this thread.

So I hope to get an official answer sometime next year.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Purple Lady

If your account is closed, you loose access to your already owned items.

This is uncertain. That's why I'm asking Amazon directly.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

A fair few people have had their ability to return ebooks removed (ie using Manage Your Content) but could still contact Amazon to request a return for cause. Source, comments on Amazon discussion boards.

I had only seen the one. But I figured there was more than one.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by pdurrant

Indeed. But some accounts have been closed, and it's entirely at Amazon's whim that accounts are closed. It would be nice to have an official statement from Amazon about their policy on digital goods when they choose to close an account, thus this thread.

So I hope to get an official answer sometime next year.

Didn't that BBC program find 3 people who's accounts had been closed.

[pdurrant]

Originally Posted by Cinisajoy

Didn't that BBC program find 3 people who's accounts had been closed.

Watchdog didn't seem to do a good job on this one. If they had, Amazon UK would already have had a canned answer for me!

[jackie_w]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

The fact that ebooks are only re-downloadable via an account are an "unfortunate side effect".

But is it a "legal side effect"?

And I thought we were talking about Amazon who I don't believe are on the brink of going out of business, are they?

No arguments from me about a company's right to choose not to allow new purchases from any customer if they so wish. Nor about the common sense of backing up your digital content immediately if you know how.

I find the wishy washy responses pdurrant has had so far to be disturbing. Are we to believe a company this large, this slick and this dominant in digital retailing has really never considered the implications of closing accounts before now? Seriously?

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by jackie_w

I find the wishy washy responses pdurrant has had so far to be disturbing. Are we to believe a company this large, this slick and this dominant in digital retailing has really never considered the implications of closing accounts before now? Seriously?

Good point. I find it hard to believe that the issue simply has come up.