Amazon - Will they become evil - Page 7

Rizla · 10-06-2015, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

Only if you download from the cloud directly to your Kindle. If you download from your Manage Your Kindle page to your computer, then it comes down in .azw3 format.

Please stop spreading FUD.

Shari

Stop that! I'm not spreading FUD, as you put it. DO NOT characterize my post as fear-mongering. I am informing a user for who this may be an issue. If my warning is incorrect and/or unnecessary, then lets correct it.

Question:

Once the the Kindle for PC program is updated to kfx (which it will certainly be), will users continue to be able to d/l books as non-kfx?

And for which users? If a user owns a Voyage or a device that is kfx compatible, what format will that book come to their PC in?

Edit: I will also add: Amazon is clearly moving to a kfx model. It might not fully arrive for a year or two, or it might come next month, but that is clearly their strategy. It appears that the kfx-compatibility was rolled out on Fires in 2013. This is a long-term strategy, and is not just about typographical features. It is clearly in keeping with their walled-garden strategy.

But to pretend it is not happening or will not happen is denial. It is in Amazon's interest to shut it down, something they have been gradually doing for a long time, and that kfx is a the next step in.

shalym · 10-06-2015, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizla

Stop that! I'm not spreading FUD, as you put it. DO NOT characterize my post as fear-mongering. I am informing a user for who this may be an issue. If my warning is incorrect and/or unnecessary, then lets correct it.

Question:

Once the the Kindle for PC program is updated to kfx (which it will certainly be), will users continue to be able to d/l books as non-kfx?

And for which users? If a user owns a Voyage or a device that is kfx compatible, what format will that book come to their PC in?

Edit: I will also add: Amazon is clearly moving to a kfx model. It might not fully arrive for a year or two, or it might come next month, but that is clearly their strategy. It appears that the kfx-compatibility was rolled out on Fires in 2013. This is a long-term strategy, and is not just about typographical features. It is clearly in keeping with their walled-garden strategy.

But to pretend it is not happening or will not happen is denial. It is in Amazon's interest to shut it down, something they have been gradually doing for a long time, and that kfx is a the next step in.

As of right now, the *only* way to get a book in KFX format is to download directly from the cloud to KFX compatible device. If a person goes to their Manage Your Kindle page and chooses "Download & transfer via USB" it will NOT be sent in KFX format no matter what device he chooses to download it for.

If Amazon were truly "clearly moving to a kfx model" as you suppose, why wouldn't they be sending that format to PCs to be put onto compatible devices?

Shari

HarryT · 10-06-2015, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

If Amazon were truly "clearly moving to a kfx model" as you suppose, why wouldn't they be sending that format to PCs to be put onto compatible devices?

Shari

Possibly because a KFX book is not a single file - it's a whole bundle of files.

shalym · 10-06-2015, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Possibly because a KFX book is not a single file - it's a whole bundle of files.

Whatever the reason, it means that it is *very unlikely* that Kindle books will ever be "locked in" to KFX format, which is what Rizla is asserting.

Shari

HarryT · 10-06-2015, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

Whatever the reason, it means that it is *very unlikely* that Kindle books will ever be "locked in" to KFX format, which is what Rizla is asserting.

Shari

Certainly not for the foreseeable future, I agree.

JSWolf · 10-06-2015, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldLincoln

Well Mr Wolf, I'm sure you're okay but I'll not trust anybody with my books. I have most of the 6700 converted now and will back them up to my mirrored backup drives before I go to bead and likely put them on my USB backup tomorrow. Nothin much else to do anyway. What is being said is similar to what I've found. Many of the books I bought in 2012 and 2013 are gone from the cloud. Note this was after they went to the AZW3 format. They may do better with the new format overwriting the cloud but I wouldn't be surprised if they stopped at some date and said screw to earlier purchases.

I don't think you get it. You download from Amazon in KFX straight to your Kindle. Then you go to Amazon's website and download via USB download. Then you have a KF8 version for backing up. That is as long as you can strip the DRM (if the eBook has DRM). This is not about the cloud or Amazon holding onto your eBooks. This is about KFX not being a problem and being able to backup your purchased eBooks.

JSWolf · 10-06-2015, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shalym

Whatever the reason, it means that it is *very unlikely* that Kindle books will ever be "locked in" to KFX format, which is what Rizla is asserting.

Shari

Amazon going KFX only won't happen unless they want to abandon users of Kindles pre-Paperwhite.

darryl · 10-06-2015, 09:17 AM

@rizla. Your warning may well ultimately prove to be correct, but we can't be certain at this stage. At the moment, you can obtain an azw3 or mobi via Kindle for PC, via direct download from Amazon for transfer via USB or of course via download to an older Kindle. The continued use of all of these methods is of course subject to Amazon's discretion. The third may be more difficult practically for Amazon to stop, but older devices will not be supported forever.

The problem is that we don't know what Amazon is planning to do or when. It is not necessarily true to say that Amazon benefits from further locking-down its walled garden. Certainly Apprentice Alf has been instrumental in giving Amazon some customers it would not otherwise have had. A group of customers who they will lose if they do move to kfx and it remains "uncracked". I don't know the size of this group of customers or whether there are enough of them to make moving entirely to .kfx unattractive to Amazon. But I suspect Amazon probably has a pretty good idea. The best advice right now seems to be to wait and see, and in the meantime enjoy the ability to make drm-free backups and convert between formats whilst we still can. If Amazon does not take the route you fear, no problem. If it does, we will all be worse-off for at least some time. If Amazon strengthens its system I expect that Adobe will take the opportunity to push its new ADE version about the same time. Intensive efforts to crack both will no doubt follow.

DiapDealer · 10-06-2015, 09:25 AM

The sooner it becomes impossible to download anything other than kfx, the sooner kfx will be reversed.

Sweetpea · 10-06-2015, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darryl

Intensive efforts to crack both will no doubt follow.

This. As soon as there is something to crack, people will crack.

I personally would never buy a book I cannot read on multiple devices (multiple = multiple suppliers). In our house, there's a Kobo, a Kindle PW, an Onyx, a BeBook Mini and a Sony (though that one is now officially retired). Why would I buy books that I cannot read on all those devices? So, the moment Amazon offers a format you cannot crack, I have no interest in that book anymore (Amazon is now the major supplier of my ebooks).

Luckily, a lot of publishers are now seeing the light too, and started to offer books with social DRM, which you can read on all your various devices.

Rizla · 10-06-2015, 09:39 AM

In other news related to those who wish to back up their books: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=266035

Removing drm may become a criminal offense. As one poster notes: No more Apprentice Alf. It may turn out that Amazon won't even need kfx to stop book conversion.

MikeB1972 · 10-06-2015, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Amazon going KFX only won't happen unless they want to abandon users of Kindles pre-Paperwhite.

Well, in theory, there is nothing stopping all downloads to PC being KFX only and kindle for PC converting on the fly when sending via USB to the relevant kindle.

AnemicOak · 10-06-2015, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Well, in theory, there is nothing stopping all downloads to PC being KFX only and kindle for PC converting on the fly when sending via USB to the relevant kindle.

K4PC isn't used to send books to a Kindle via USB. I suppose they could change that, but it doesn't seem likely.

MikeB1972 · 10-06-2015, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

K4PC isn't used to send books to a Kindle via USB. I suppose they could change that, but it doesn't seem likely.

Hey, I said in theory.
We can't let logic or common sense get in the way of a good conspiracy theory.

Cinisajoy · 10-06-2015, 12:50 PM

I doubt very seriously that Amazon will take away my ability to read the books I bought there on my kindles.
Now as to the one that can't find his books. Use the contact us button on the Amazon help page. The customer service reps can put the book on your device. They have done it for me more than once. Be sure to have your order number.
As to the DRM removal being a criminal offense, that seems to be only in 6 countries.

As per the number of strippers, I figure they are less than 5% of Amazon's ebook customers.

There is my 2 cents.

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10-06-2015, 09:17 AM	#98
darryl Wizard Posts: 3,108 Karma: 60231510 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Australia Device: Kobo Aura H2O, Kindle Oasis, Huwei Ascend Mate 7	@rizla. Your warning may well ultimately prove to be correct, but we can't be certain at this stage. At the moment, you can obtain an azw3 or mobi via Kindle for PC, via direct download from Amazon for transfer via USB or of course via download to an older Kindle. The continued use of all of these methods is of course subject to Amazon's discretion. The third may be more difficult practically for Amazon to stop, but older devices will not be supported forever. The problem is that we don't know what Amazon is planning to do or when. It is not necessarily true to say that Amazon benefits from further locking-down its walled garden. Certainly Apprentice Alf has been instrumental in giving Amazon some customers it would not otherwise have had. A group of customers who they will lose if they do move to kfx and it remains "uncracked". I don't know the size of this group of customers or whether there are enough of them to make moving entirely to .kfx unattractive to Amazon. But I suspect Amazon probably has a pretty good idea. The best advice right now seems to be to wait and see, and in the meantime enjoy the ability to make drm-free backups and convert between formats whilst we still can. If Amazon does not take the route you fear, no problem. If it does, we will all be worse-off for at least some time. If Amazon strengthens its system I expect that Adobe will take the opportunity to push its new ADE version about the same time. Intensive efforts to crack both will no doubt follow.

10-06-2015, 09:25 AM	#99
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 28,620 Karma: 204624552 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	The sooner it becomes impossible to download anything other than kfx, the sooner kfx will be reversed.

10-06-2015, 09:39 AM	#101
Rizla Member Retired Posts: 3,183 Karma: 11721895 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Nook STR (rooted) & Sony T2	In other news related to those who wish to back up their books: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=266035 Removing drm may become a criminal offense. As one poster notes: No more Apprentice Alf. It may turn out that Amazon won't even need kfx to stop book conversion.

10-06-2015, 12:50 PM	#105
Cinisajoy Just a Yellow Smiley. Posts: 19,161 Karma: 83862859 Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Texas Device: K4, K5, fire, kobo, galaxy	I doubt very seriously that Amazon will take away my ability to read the books I bought there on my kindles. Now as to the one that can't find his books. Use the contact us button on the Amazon help page. The customer service reps can put the book on your device. They have done it for me more than once. Be sure to have your order number. As to the DRM removal being a criminal offense, that seems to be only in 6 countries. As per the number of strippers, I figure they are less than 5% of Amazon's ebook customers. There is my 2 cents.