Amazon - Will they become evil

Originally Posted by HarryT

Do you think that it serves a useful purpose to characterise a company as "good" or "evil"? That suggests a moral (or immoral) motivation for their activities. Company policies are generally not motivated by such things, but rather by the desire to maximise revenue.

True that. Corporations are by nature amoral.

[darryl]

Although Corporations are only fictional people, they do seem to take on a life of their own. And all too often, Corporations seem to provide what, for want of a better term, I will call a moral shelter for its managers. Too often otherwise good and decent people make decisions as part of a Corporation that they would never, ever make as individuals. Their duty to their shareholders, amongst other things, is called upon in the defence of the most callous decisions. The responsibility for these decisions is seen as the Corporation, not the individual or collective decision makers. There is much Science Fiction dealing with a world run by lare amoral or even immoral multi-national Corporations. There is no easy answer. And no, Rizla, everything can't be easily fixed by regulation, particularly with Multi-National entities.

[SteveEisenberg]

Originally Posted by darryl

Amazon is an employer in a first world country, and must comply with its labour laws. There has been no suggestion that it does not.

If I had the time, I think I could, with Google, find evidence of labor law violations in every company with tens of thousands of employees.

Knowing every big company has good and bad corners, how do they compare overall? This is a judgment call based on a combination of survey information and impressionistic evidence.

Originally Posted by darryl

I would hazard a guess that most of Amazon's critics on this aspect of their operations have no qualms buying products produced offshore in far worse conditions than at Amazon, even if the worst of the Amazon Horror stories were completely true.

I would hazard a guess that a lot of them are buy-American types, or the EU equivalent. I guess we need a poll on this.

Originally Posted by darryl

Firstly, the 1984 incident was a blot on their record which will take some time to live down.

Amazon has no problem with that book. All they were doing was upholding copyright.

From where I sit and read, Amazon has a wonderful freedom to read record in the US. They sell books that are strongly critical of both the US government and of Amazon itself.

However, the fact that Amazon freely operates in China, while Archive.org, Facebook, Google, and the New York Times are all blocked, suggests some questions to ask. I just searched Amazon.cn (their China site) for Jung Chang, a best-selling British author of books on modern Chinese history, who is critical of the government there, and nothing comes up:

http://www.amazon.cn/s/ref=nb_sb_nos...k%3AJung+Chang

I do think there is potential for Amazon to, over time, improve. One thing that might change my opinion of Amazon is if it used its technical expertise to push forbidden titles past censorship firewalls and into countries with significant freedom to read deficits, such as Russia, China, and some of those in the Middle East.

Amazon does not have a laser-like focus on profit. They can do this.

[cromag]

I do take into account the way a company treats its employees, sources/vendors, etc., but mostly I take into account the way they treat their customers. I've almost never had a problem with Amazon. The few times I've had to contact Amazon's customer service I've been happy with the result.

There are a couple -- and only a couple -- of online merchants I like better. So, I frequently buy at Amazon.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Rizla

Which begs the question if these by definition amoral corporations need to be regulated. The new Labor leader in the UK plans to rein in Amazon's and other corporation's tax shenanigans.

Originally Posted by HarryT

You know as well as I do that posts of this nature belong in the P&R forum.

In addition to being functionally irrelevant in a thread that is specifically looking at Amazon. As was evident in the actual post.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg

However, the fact that Amazon freely operates in China, while Archive.org, Facebook, Google, and the New York Times are all blocked, suggests some questions to ask. I just searched Amazon.cn (their China site) for Jung Chang, a best-selling British author of books on modern Chinese history, who is critical of the government there, and nothing comes up:

http://www.amazon.cn/s/ref=nb_sb_nos...k%3AJung+Chang

I do think there is potential for Amazon to, over time, improve. One thing that might change my opinion of Amazon is if it used its technical expertise to push forbidden titles past censorship firewalls and into countries with significant freedom to read deficits, such as Russia, China, and some of those in the Middle East.

Amazon does not have a laser-like focus on profit. They can do this.

Amazon do have a focus on profit. The difference is they reinvest that profit -- they have no focus on war chests.

I don't see Amazon picking a fight with e.g. China over moral reasons.
Unlike Google, which does have a culture of trying to show themselves as the good guys.
And very much unlike Archive.org, which is a nonprofit existing solely to preserve and provide access to knowledge, and are thus diametrically opposed to censorship!

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by darryl

Although Corporations are only fictional people, they do seem to take on a life of their own. And all too often, Corporations seem to provide what, for want of a better term, I will call a moral shelter for its managers. Too often otherwise good and decent people make decisions as part of a Corporation that they would never, ever make as individuals. Their duty to their shareholders, amongst other things, is called upon in the defence of the most callous decisions. The responsibility for these decisions is seen as the Corporation, not the individual or collective decision makers. There is much Science Fiction dealing with a world run by lare amoral or even immoral multi-national Corporations. There is no easy answer. And no, Rizla, everything can't be easily fixed by regulation, particularly with Multi-National entities.

Actually, very little can be fixed by regulation.
Certainly nothing pertaining to morality or ethics.
Prohibition, the war on drugs, criminality, war...

Laws and regulations only bind those inclined to follow them.
Beyond that, they punish non-compliers.

And multinationals, whether American online retailers, jaanese automakers, or German media empires, can and do play the laws of one country against those of others to get away with pretty much everything.

Philip Bobbit's SHIELD OF ACHILLES looks into the rise of transnational entities in its last section about the rise of what might be termed "post-national" market states. Corporations are the mildest expression of these entities, mostly because they *are* amoral.

[DiapDealer]

You just wait. Once Amazon successfully opens a hellmouth, we'll all be sorry.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You just wait. Once Amazon successfully opens a hellmouth, we'll all be sorry.

That is true.
A fifth hellmouth would complete the planetwide pentacle.

Fortunately Ms Summers has kept North Am hellmouth-free, so far.

[John F]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

You just wait. Once Amazon successfully opens a hellmouth, we'll all be sorry.

Psst. Amazon plans on taking over space. The pentaverate meeting starts at 0900 to discuss planning. Pass it along.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazo...144929128.html

[darryl]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

That is true.
A fifth hellmouth would complete the planetwide pentacle.

Fortunately Ms Summers has kept North Am hellmouth-free, so far.

Actually I thought the Big 5 had one Hellmouth each!

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by darryl

Actually I thought the Big 5 had one Hellmouth each!

Buffy blew up the S&S one under central park back in 2009.
A bit late to prevent a demon infestation but just in time to prevent a full Pentacle.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by John F

Psst. Amazon plans on taking over space. The pentaverate meeting starts at 0900 to discuss planning. Pass it along.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/amazo...144929128.html

One day soon, kids in classrooms will be reciting this each morning:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag, of the United States of Amazon..."

[DiapDealer]

"And to the Retail for which it stands..."

[DiapDealer]

"One world, under Illuminati.
"Inescapable.
"With Prime Video and Free Shipping for all."